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Switch to Forum Live View Obama: U.S. military action against Libya has begun
4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 7:59PM #51
Welle
Posts: 782

Mar 20, 2011 -- 7:46PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Mar 20, 2011 -- 6:54PM, Welle wrote:


Show me proof that it happened in Libya, other than allegations.




So you maintain this is all propaganda? 


If anyone has swallowed propaganda, it's you, seeing you're telling me you believe Gadhafy's lies.


But answer me this.


Several eyewitness accounts have been published  by journalists in Libya.  Are they liars?


Is this account "faked?" 


 Does this look like an "allegation?"


How about this?  Is this an "allegation?"  Or this?   


Now, the UNSC apparently believed these accounts and more.  Russia and China (traditional allies of Libya) and three other Security Council members when given the facts did not try to stop UNSCR 1973.  They ABSTAINED from voting for it, but they didn't vote against it.


Mar 20, 2011 -- 6:54PM, Welle wrote:


So I take it you believe that about the mercenaries (since you didn't argue). 



Nope.  I didn't argue.  Excessive force clearly was used.  Accurate US news reports on the accounts have been made.  Clearly I do not approve of police firing on protesters and killing them.    However, the Bahraini armed forces are not bombarding the cities and causing mass casualties.


The same sort of thing happened in Egypt.  It happened in Tunisia.  It seems the people there took care of it.  The Governments there did not go overboard and send the military in to bombard their cities either.


Mar 20, 2011 -- 6:54PM, Welle wrote:


You don't seem to understand what I'm asking you, though.  I'm asking you why you think Israel would have done that.  I'm saying that THAT is what confuses me, if it's true



I don't understand the question.  Press TV is IRANIAN and not ISRAELI.




No, I haven't 'swallowed propaganda' as you put it (I'm not very good at doing that).  My view about this has remained the same no matter what they might be putting on tv.


I do not have time now to look at your links but I certainly will, later this evening, and I appreciate your having provided them.


The PressTV thing:  doesn't matter; the story originated in an Israeli newspaper.  Never mind that for now though; nobody can know about that issue for sure yet.  I just wondered what you thought of the contradiction implied in it, if you had heard about it.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 8:23PM #52
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Mar 20, 2011 -- 7:59PM, Welle wrote:


No, I haven't 'swallowed propaganda' as you put it (I'm not very good at doing that).  My view about this has remained the same no matter what they might be putting on tv.



IOW "my mind is made up so don't confuse me with the facts?"  That sort of thing?


Mar 20, 2011 -- 6:54PM, Welle wrote:


The PressTV thing:  doesn't matter; the story originated in an Israeli newspaper.  Never mind that for now though; nobody can know about that issue for sure yet.  I just wondered what you thought of the contradiction implied in it, if you had heard about it.


 




It's an "Israeli" account?  Is that your way of dismissing it out of hand? 


If this originated in an Israeli account, then why not prove it, and then explain to me why an Iranian media outlet also carried it?

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 8:50PM #53
Welle
Posts: 782

Mar 20, 2011 -- 8:23PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Mar 20, 2011 -- 7:59PM, Welle wrote:


No, I haven't 'swallowed propaganda' as you put it (I'm not very good at doing that).  My view about this has remained the same no matter what they might be putting on tv.



IOW "my mind is made up so don't confuse me with the facts?"  That sort of thing?



No need to resort to personal characterization, Mlyons.  I already told you I would look at your links (haven't yet but will later tonight).  But because I can distinguish facts from allegations, I rather doubt I'll be convinced.


Mar 20, 2011 -- 8:23PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


It's an "Israeli" account?  Is that your way of dismissing it out of hand? 


If this originated in an Israeli account, then why not prove it, and then explain to me why an Iranian media outlet also carried it?




Sure, I can get you those links, but you're probably going to regret arguing FOR it. 


And please ...try to read more carefully; I didn't 'dismiss it out of hand'.  In fact, I didn't dismiss it at all.   I was saying it doesn't matter that PressTV is an Iranian news outlet, because the item originated in an Israeli newspaper (you had objected that PressTV is Iranian vs. Israeli).


I honestly don't know at this point whether or not the story is true.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 8:55PM #54
Welle
Posts: 782

 


Anyone here remember the "Seven Countries in Five Years" plan ?  My apologies if someone has already mentioned it in this thread. 


General Wesley Clarke revealed in a 2007 interview that he had been told the plan was "Seven Countries in Five Years".  One of those countries was Libya.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 8:59PM #55
Bluedog1a
Posts: 237

Mar 20, 2011 -- 7:53PM, voice-crying wrote:


IMO, the people of Libya made a mistake when they refused to allow Gadhafi to leave [with cash and assurance of not going to trial].  The people want and deserve justice but! The price is greater than they imagined. 





Ghadaffi should've taken the money and ran!

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 9:01PM #56
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Mar 20, 2011 -- 8:50PM, Welle wrote:


No need to resort to personal characterizations, Mlyons.  I already told you I would look at your links (haven't yet but will later tonight).  But because I can distinguish facts from allegation, I rather doubt I'll be convinced...



LOL.  What I said earlier, you JUST said in so many words.


Mar 20, 2011 -- 6:54PM, Welle wrote:


Sure, I can get you all the links, but you're probably going to regret arguing FOR it.  And please read more carefully; I didn't 'dismiss it out of hand'.  In fact, I didn't dismiss it at all.  I honestly don't know, and I don't make pronouncements either way about something I don't know. 


 



From what I've seen PRESS TV accounts are independent of Israeli accounts.


This PRESS TV account in no way surprises me, seeing it attempts to insinuate that Western Powers have helped Gadhafi in the past and are now trying to take advantage of the situation.


By the by, in this particular PRESS TV account, it seems the Iranians have been "fooled" by Western "propaganda" that Qadhafi is bombing his own people.  Now why is that?


Could it be because {{{shudder}}} it is TRUE?




"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 9:06PM #57
Welle
Posts: 782

Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:01PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


 


LOL.  What I said earlier, you JUST said in so many words.



Uhmm, not really.  What I just said is that I have a certain degree of ability to distinguish allegations from facts. 


 


Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:01PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


From what I've seen PRESS TV accounts are independent of Israeli accounts.



Not in at least one case.
Obviously, you found the PressTV account; the other ones are Ma'an, another Israeli concession which I can get you, an Italian one [if I'm remembering correctly], and Al Jazeera.net.


Here is one source, if you have access to a translation:


www.news-israel.net/Article.asp?code=249...


Here is another source:


www.ansamed.info/en/israele/news/ME.XEF4...


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 9:14PM #58
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:06PM, Welle wrote:


Uhmm, not really.




LOL.  Whatever.


Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:06PM, Welle wrote:


Obviously, you found the PressTV account; the other ones are Ma'an, another Israeli concession which I can get you, and Al Jazeera.net.



AL-JEZEERA.NET IS ISRAELI?


LOL!


Almost as funny as implying PRESS-TV is Israeli-controlled. 



"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 9:17PM #59
Welle
Posts: 782

Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:14PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


 


Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:06PM, Welle wrote:


Obviously, you found the PressTV account; the other ones are Ma'an, another Israeli concession which I can get you, and Al Jazeera.net.



AL-JEZEERA.NET IS ISRAELI?


LOL!


Almost as funny as implying PRESS-TV is Israeli-controlled. 





I never said Al Jazeera 'is Israeli'.  I told you one of the sources was Israeli, then I mentioned some additional sources, including Al Jazeera.  


I also never 'implied PressTV is Israeli controlled'; what I wrote was that in at least one case they carried the same story.


My time is not a renewable resource, and there are some people to whom I refuse to give it; that number includes people who incorrectly paraphrase me because they have no answer to what I actually wrote.


So, see ya MLyons.


 


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 20, 2011 - 9:26PM #60
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:17PM, Welle wrote:

Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:14PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


 


Mar 20, 2011 -- 9:06PM, Welle wrote:


Obviously, you found the PressTV account; the other ones are Ma'an, another Israeli concession which I can get you, and Al Jazeera.net.



AL-JEZEERA.NET IS ISRAELI?


LOL!


Almost as funny as implying PRESS-TV is Israeli-controlled. 





I never said Al Jazeera was Israeli.  I told you one of the sources was Israeli, then I mentioned some other sources including Al Jazeera.  


I also never 'implied PressTV is Israeli controlled'; what I wrote was that in at least one case they carried the same story.


My time is not a renewable resource, and there are some people to whom I refuse to give it; that number includes people who incorrectly paraphrase me because they have no answer to what I actually wrote.


So, see ya MLyons.


 


 


 


RUN AWAY RUN AWAY! (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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