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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:16PM #21
mountain_man
Posts: 39,062

Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:10PM, Christianlib wrote:

Either "all life is sacred" or it isn't.



Not really. There is a difference between murdering a person - a life - and killing a plant - a life - to eat it.


(PS, you gotta love how many of the people who will then whine, "but unborn babies are INNOCENT" also then try to tell us how ALL humans are "born in sin" due to Eve.  I LOVE how people can't get their theology straight with their blood lust.)



The death penalty is proscribed for many different actions in the OT and the OT god "smote" many for such benign acts as picking up sticks or calling an old man baldy. Not much respect for life there.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:16PM #22
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:08PM, mountain_man wrote:

That can be done without murdering the person. Then you consider the FACT that many of these so called "dangerous" people were murdered by the state and then found later to be innocent. Then consider the FACT that the death penalty is racially and econically biased. Put all that together and you have a policy that is immoral and generally devalues all life.




Yes, but murder is defined as an unlawful killing of another human being with intent.  You may disagree with it, but this is by definition, the lawful killing of another human being.  Hence, is not murder. 


 


Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:10PM, Christianlib wrote:


Either "all life is sacred" or it isn't.




It isn't. 


 


all

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:18PM #23
teilhard
Posts: 50,680

No ... I've served a couple Years "behind bars" myself, as a Chaplain in a Super-Max for Adult Male Felons ... There is NO way to incarcerate exceedingly dangerous Persons SAFELY ...


The Staff, the other Inmates, and the general Public are at RISK from Dangerous Persons ...


Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:08PM, mountain_man wrote:


Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:01PM, Girlchristian wrote:

The death penalty is for those criminals who are simply too dangerous to risk them ever entering society again, period.



That can be done without murdering the person. Then you consider the FACT that many of these so called "dangerous" people were murdered by the state and then found later to be innocent. Then consider the FACT that the death penalty is racially and econically biased. Put all that together and you have a policy that is immoral and generally devalues all life.





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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:20PM #24
mountain_man
Posts: 39,062

Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:12PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Well, CL, both sides have their inconsistencies. If "all life is sacred" then neither the death penalty nor abortion should be allowed, but most of those who are against allowing the death penalty are for allowing abortion.



No one is for abortion. They are pro choice. Claiming it is a "life" before it is born is nothing but a rationalization for a made up religous belief. Abortion is not specifically mentioned in the bible. It doesn't matter anyway since not everyone runs their life by what some claim the bible says.


Me, I think abortion should be allowed in two instances and I think the death penalty should be allowed in two instances.



Abortion is a personal decision made by a woman about her body and what is going on inside her body. It is the business of no one else. The death penalty is murdering a fully grown human being. You are taking something that you have no right to take and something that cannot be given back of you make a mistake.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:20PM #25
mountain_man
Posts: 39,062

Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:12PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Well, CL, both sides have their inconsistencies. If "all life is sacred" then neither the death penalty nor abortion should be allowed, but most of those who are against allowing the death penalty are for allowing abortion.


No one is for abortion. They are pro choice. Claiming it is a "life" before it is born is nothing but a rationalization for a made up religous belief. Abortion is not specifically mentioned in the bible. It doesn't matter anyway since not everyone runs their life by what some claim the bible says.

Me, I think abortion should be allowed in two instances and I think the death penalty should be allowed in two instances.


Abortion is a personal decision made by a woman about her body and what is going on inside her body. It is the business of no one else. The death penalty is murdering a fully grown human being. You are taking something that you have no right to take and something that cannot be given back of you make a mistake.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:21PM #26
TPaine
Posts: 9,259

Nov 9, 2010 -- 1:50PM, teilhard wrote:


Again, though ...


The Death Penalty Question -- ESPECIALLY as in THIS AWful CAse --  is NOT about "Punishment" or "Retribution," but about PROTECTION of The Innocent ...



My problem with capital punishment is that there have been cases in which the person convicted and sentenced was later found to be innocent. Examples would be Michael Blair, Kirk Bloodsworth, and Kennedy Brewer among others. Fortunately, they were exonerated before the sentence was carried out. If the wrong person is executed it cannot be made right. Those people cannot be resurrected and it's not enough to tell their families, "Whoops, we goofed, sorry." The cases I mentioned above can be found at:


www.innocenceproject.org/


Was Steven Hayes guilty? Given the evidence that was presented at the trial it seems that he was, and if so deserves whatever punishment he receives given the horrific brutality of the crime.


 

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:24PM #27
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,093

Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:20PM, mountain_man wrote:


Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:12PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Well, CL, both sides have their inconsistencies. If "all life is sacred" then neither the death penalty nor abortion should be allowed, but most of those who are against allowing the death penalty are for allowing abortion.



No one is for abortion. They are pro choice. Claiming it is a "life" before it is born is nothing but a rationalization for a made up religous belief. Abortion is not specifically mentioned in the bible. It doesn't matter anyway since not everyone runs their life by what some claim the bible says.


[




Many are for allowing abortion, which is what I said. If it's not a "life" then what is it considering it has its own DNA and, if left alone, would be born. Or, better why does the law set limits on abortion, if it doesn't involve a "life"? i.e., a woman can terminate that "life" at 4 months, but can't at 7 months, even though it hasn't yet been born.

CL didn't say "all born life is sacred," he said "all life is sacred."

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:25PM #28
mountain_man
Posts: 39,062

Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:16PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

Yes, but murder is defined as an unlawful killing of another human being with intent.  You may disagree with it, but this is by definition, the lawful killing of another human being.  Hence, is not murder.



Murder is the malicious taking of a human life. Capital punishment is murder. It is done with hate, anger, revenge, and the devaluing of human life.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:30PM #29
mountain_man
Posts: 39,062

Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:24PM, Girlchristian wrote:

Many are for allowing abortion, which is what I said. If it's not a "life" then what is it considering it has its own DNA and, if left alone, would be born.



The key word there is highlighted for you. When it IS born, then it gets the appellation of "life."


Or, better why does the law set limits on abortion, if it doesn't involve a "life"? i.e., a woman can terminate that "life" at 4 months, but can't at 7 months, even though it hasn't yet been born.



That does not make the death penalty moral.


CL didn't say "all born life is sacred," he said "all life is sacred."



I'm sorry. I did not know I had to conform to whatever CL said.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 09, 2010 - 2:33PM #30
teilhard
Posts: 50,680

No ... Properly used, The Death Penalty is a Form of "Self-Defense" of an entire Society ...


Do you not accept the terribly sad ( thankfully, RARE !!! ) NECESSITY of "Self-Defense" ... ???


Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:25PM, mountain_man wrote:


Nov 9, 2010 -- 2:16PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

Yes, but murder is defined as an unlawful killing of another human being with intent.  You may disagree with it, but this is by definition, the lawful killing of another human being.  Hence, is not murder.



Murder is the malicious taking of a human life. Capital punishment is murder. It is done with hate, anger, revenge, and the devaluing of human life.





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