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Switch to Forum Live View Israel's Right To Exist As A Jewish State
4 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2010 - 5:29PM #1
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,319

So here in an easy to watch you tube presentation is a pretty simple explanation of the Jewish side of the story, the Jewish narrative. You may not agree with it (although you should) but you need to acknowledge that it exists and that it has at least as much validity as the current or former Arab narratives.


the video refutes all of the current objections to the State of Israel.


part 1


www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3N3ZZT8tys&feat...


part 2


www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMZ_4LxBQ3E&anno...

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2010 - 6:18PM #2
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,319

And if you actually know how to read or prefer to read, here is an article written by Ambassador Oren


Op-Ed Contributor

An End to Israel’s Invisibility




NEARLY 63 years after the United Nations recognized the right of the  Jewish people to independence in their homeland — and more than 62 years  since Israel’s creation — the Palestinians are still denying the Jewish  nature of the state. “Israel can name itself whatever it wants,” said  the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, while,  according to  the newspaper Haaretz, his chief negotiator, Saeb Erekat, said  that  the Palestinian Authority will never recognize Israel as the Jewish  state. Back in 1948, opposition to the legitimacy of a Jewish state  ignited a war. Today it threatens peace.


. . .


Affirmation of Israel’s Jewishness, however, is the very foundation of  peace, its DNA. Just as Israel recognizes the existence of a Palestinian  people with an inalienable right to self-determination in its homeland,  so, too, must the Palestinians accede to the Jewish people’s 3,000-year  connection to our homeland and our right to sovereignty there.  This mutual acceptance is essential if both peoples are to live side by  side in two states in genuine and lasting peace.


. . .


Which is precisely why Israelis seek the basic reassurance that the  Palestinian Authority is ready to accept our state — to accept us.  Israelis need to know that further concessions would not render us more  vulnerable to terrorism and susceptible to unending demands. Though  recognition of Israel as the Jewish state would not shield us from  further assaults or pressure, it would prove that the Palestinians are  serious about peace.


The core of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been the refusal to  recognize Jews as a people, indigenous to the region and endowed with  the right to self-government. Criticism of Israeli policies often serves  to obscure this fact, and peace continues to elude us. By urging the  Palestinians to recognize us as their permanent and legitimate  neighbors, Prime Minister Netanyahu is pointing the way out of the  current impasse: he is identifying the only path to co-existence.


full article


www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/opinion/14ore...


or


www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/opinion/14oren.html?th&emc=th


 

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 17, 2010 - 5:38AM #3
papdu
Posts: 337

Oct 15, 2010 -- 6:18PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


And if you actually know how to read or prefer to read, here is an article written by Ambassador Oren


Op-Ed Contributor

An End to Israel’s Invisibility




NEARLY 63 years after the United Nations recognized the right of the  Jewish people to independence in their homeland — and more than 62 years  since Israel’s creation — the Palestinians are still denying the Jewish  nature of the state. “Israel can name itself whatever it wants,” said  the Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, while,  according to  the newspaper Haaretz, his chief negotiator, Saeb Erekat, said  that  the Palestinian Authority will never recognize Israel as the Jewish  state. Back in 1948, opposition to the legitimacy of a Jewish state  ignited a war. Today it threatens peace.


. . .


Affirmation of Israel’s Jewishness, however, is the very foundation of  peace, its DNA. Just as Israel recognizes the existence of a Palestinian  people with an inalienable right to self-determination in its homeland,  so, too, must the Palestinians accede to the Jewish people’s 3,000-year  connection to our homeland and our right to sovereignty there.  This mutual acceptance is essential if both peoples are to live side by  side in two states in genuine and lasting peace.


. . .


Which is precisely why Israelis seek the basic reassurance that the  Palestinian Authority is ready to accept our state — to accept us.  Israelis need to know that further concessions would not render us more  vulnerable to terrorism and susceptible to unending demands. Though  recognition of Israel as the Jewish state would not shield us from  further assaults or pressure, it would prove that the Palestinians are  serious about peace.


The core of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been the refusal to  recognize Jews as a people, indigenous to the region and endowed with  the right to self-government. Criticism of Israeli policies often serves  to obscure this fact, and peace continues to elude us. By urging the  Palestinians to recognize us as their permanent and legitimate  neighbors, Prime Minister Netanyahu is pointing the way out of the  current impasse: he is identifying the only path to co-existence.


full article


www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/opinion/14ore...


or


www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/opinion/14oren.html?th&emc=th


 





The problem is is that unlike recognizing the palestinians their right to self determination the Israeli's aren't asking the palestinians to recognize Israeli's right to determination,but asking instead the right of Jews to have the right of being the majority....That is exactly what Jews are asking the right to be the majority...So in that respect the Palestinians and the surrounding Arab countries are right, Israel can call itself whatever it wants, but the reality is..WHAT HAPPENS WHEN JEWS AREN'T THE MAJORITY??Are they still suppose to recognize Israel as a Jewish country??


The only people who need to recognize Israel as a Jewish country are the Jews, and they haven't. Israeli law recognizes all faiths equally under the law and perhaps non-Jews actually have more freedom then Jews in Israel and more likely then not, unless something is changed in the laws Israel will democratically become a muslim dominated country......So why should and to what benefit would it be to Israelis to have the surrounding Arab countries recognize Israel as Jewish. They won't recognize Israel as Jewish anymore then they will recognize France as Christian and rightly so neither country inhibits the growth of any particular faith....

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 17, 2010 - 9:24PM #4
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,319

Papdu


You are wrong. Most likely because you are unfamiliar with the history of Islam, the Arab conquests,  the history and development of Arab nationalism, Jewish history and the history of the re-establishment of the State of Israel.


The reasons recognition of Israel as the Jewish State is necessary are (in no particular order): 1. it is, 2. without recognition of Israel as the Jewish State, the Arabs get to continue to deny Israel's legitimacy (since they only recognize the rights of Arabs and more particularly Arab Muslims to govern in areas they consider part of Muslim Lands), 3. to clarify the question of the so called "Right of return" in which people who call themselves "Palestinians (no matter that they have zero connection with anything ever considered "Palestine" or such a tangential relationship to be mostly meaningless) argue they should return to Israel and alter Israel into a  Muslim majority country (something that has no chance of happening without such a "return" of the so called Palestinian refugees. Recognition of Israel would force the return of the ersatz refugees to the new Palestinian country), 4. the fact that you and others feel that it is fine to deny Jews their national homeland (either because you have given up on nationalism or because you and others have singled out Jew for perpetual status as homeless, powerless or for other even less salubrious reasons), 5. the Palestinians insist that a new Palestinian State be recognized as a Muslim State wherein Jews are not allowed to live, own land, businesses, etc...

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 25, 2010 - 8:06AM #5
Ricky
Posts: 1,225

Nowhere in the Bible is the Promised Land the domain of only 1 Israelite tribe to the exclusion of all others, especially to those who are not of Abraham's seed.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 25, 2010 - 9:21PM #6
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,365

Let's get a little Biblical info straight, Ricky...ALL Twelve Tribes of Israel were of Abraham's seed.


An off-topic response to an off-topic post.  Sorry.  Please return to the main focus of this thread.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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4 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2010 - 11:23AM #7
teilhard
Posts: 50,086

NOBODY raises much Worry over The "Arab-ness" of Saudi Arabia, or The Swedish-ness of Sweden ...


Whenever The "Jewish-ness" of The State of Israel is raised as an OBJECTION to The State of Israel, I detect strong "whiffs" of "The Protocols of The Elders of Zion" ... AS  IF  "The Jews" are some "kind" of People who need to be  WATCHED  CLOSELY  ...

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2010 - 11:56AM #8
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,319

Israel’s right to exist is nonnegotiable






As  long as Palestinians continue denying the ancient connection between  Jews and the land of Israel any agreement will be written in sand at the  edge of the ocean.


. . .


Jewish nation, of course,  does not mean special rights for Jews or second-class status for non-Jews.  Israel is a democratic country whose laws clearly spell out equality for all  citizens. Like other democracies, it doesn’t always achieve its goal of  equality, but its courts, citizens groups and others continuously work to reach  it.

And Israel is hardly the only country that includes a religion or  nationality in its selfdefinition.

Scores of states embrace a religion or  a nationality while maintaining diversity and striving for equal rights. Jewish  citizens of the United Kingdom are loyal to a country whose flag has not one but  two Christian crosses. There are dozens of self-described Christian countries,  most of them fully functioning democracies with minority rights.

The  democracy-deprived Arab League counts 22 members self-identified as Arab states,  while 55 countries define themselves as Muslim nations belonging to the  Organization of the Islamic Conference. Only one minuscule nation on Earth is a  Jewish state.


. . .


FOR ALMOST a decade the United States has urged  Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Last year, President Barack  Obama told the UN General Assembly that, “The goal is clear, two states living  side by side in peace and security – a Jewish state of Israel, with true  security for all Israelis.”

And yet, when Netanyahu – like his  predecessor – asked Palestinians to recognize the Jewish character of Israel,  not as a prerequisite for talks but as a trust-building measure, their  almost-instantaneous reaction was vehement rejection. Palestinian Authority  President Mahmoud Abbas declared, “We will never sign an agreement recognizing a  Jewish state.” Chief negotiator Saeb Erekat insisted, “This is completely  rejected.”

And when a Palestinian official hinted it might be doable, he  was immediately overruled.

Nabil Sha’ath, an adviser to Abbas, noted, “We  are not going to do it. Forget it.”

Palestinians seem unwilling to even  recognize Israel as the state of another “people.”


. . .


Whether Palestinians like it or not, Israel already is the  national state of the Jewish people.

Israelis have already recognized the  right of Palestinians to have their state. As long as Palestinians fail to  recognize the right of the Jewish people to have theirs, true peace may never  come.


full article


www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/...


or


www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=192758

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 27, 2010 - 1:27PM #9
Scottishpresbyterianmanpca4life
Posts: 8

I'm actually a Presbyterian of the Presbyterian Church in America not those other Presbyerians known as the P.C.U.S.A. ones. I love and accept Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people, my denomination is very Pro-Israel. I don't like how the P.C.U.S.A. is so anti-Israel and they don't represent all Presbyterians. Israel is the eternal homeland of the Jewish people and they have every right to live in Judea and Samaria also which I consider Israel. I know by writing this I will be criticized by Muslims and so on, but this is the biblical truth that Israel will always have more of a right to the land then Muslim Arabs. Israel has tryed to negotiate with Muslims who are against recognizing the state of Israel because of that anti-semite Muhammed. I don't like how anti-semetic and anti-Israel some churches can be nowadays, shame on them and I can't write with certainty that they are going to a better place. Only God can judge, and that's all I know but I'm disturbed by that other Presbyterian Church not being friendly with Israel.

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4 years ago  ::  Nov 01, 2010 - 11:29AM #10
Ricky
Posts: 1,225

''Israel is the eternal homeland of the Jewish people''


Then why isn't it called Judea?  It is called Israel for Jacob who had 12 sons, not just one.  If this is the eternal land of only one tribe then the Bible would have told us that racial or tribal (or religious) exclusionism  was mandated but we see no such rule in that book.


If you are the true Christian you claim to be you would know that the New Testament tells us that all 12 tribes plus all who acknowledge Jesus as Messiah are heirs to the Promise Land as shown in Galatians. On that basis Israel cannot be the eternal homeland of Jews to the exclusion of all others.

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