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Switch to Forum Live View Citing Quran-Burning Threat, Islamic Body Wants U.N. to Outlaw ‘Offenses Against Religion’
4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 9:26AM #11
IreneAdler
Posts: 2,849

So is the Don't Call People Names resolution next?


 


Irene.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 9:57AM #12
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Sep 23, 2010 -- 11:09PM, Ceren wrote:

Secondly this "leading organization" apparently is unaware that a resolution like this already was passed... so no need for a new one!



Actually, it's rather more complicated than that. The UN Human Rights Council adopted a resolution that barred religious defamation but that's not the same thing as offences against religion. Defamation prevents people telling inflammatory lies about a religion like "the Jews want to drink your blood", it doesn't prevent people offending you faith an it was adopted as a non-binding resolution by the HRC, not the full UN itself.


I can't see it passing the full UN to become a binding resolution either. Among other things, the UN charter guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of speech and expression so long as they do not infringe on the other enumerated rights (the ECHR contains similar language). Since a resolution against offenses to religion would violate all three, the chances of it passing are very slim indeed.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 12:09PM #13
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

Sep 24, 2010 -- 9:26AM, IreneAdler wrote:

So is the Don't Call People Names resolution next?


 


Irene.


LOL!

But if what UR2 says is true---that over 50% of those voting WANT this crap "law"(completely unenforceable, as the "united nations" is an organization, not a government) implemented, i'm astounded.

Think i'll go buy a Qu'ran and burn it in front of the Saudi Embassy.

Or maybe i'll just set the FRN's on fire, instead, and cut out the middle-man.

No government entity or representative should EVER be empowered to tell ANY individual what they may or may not do with their property, as long as the use of said property injures NO ONE in their life, liberty, or property.  If it's MY property, and i want to drown it, bury it, burn it, wipe my behind with it, eat it, or any damn thing else i feel like doing with it, it is no one else's business whatsoever.

That's pretty-much the PURPOSE of the First Amendment, is it not?  To restrict gov't agents from demanding that the populace shut up, and enforcing that demand with threat of force and imprisonment?

Makes me wanna smack some heads together.

"Well, it makes me MAD, so it should be banned" is an inutterably stupid argument.

With goodwill to all the People-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 12:42PM #14
rabello
Posts: 22,234

I wouldn't worry about it too much.   This is hardly the first time such an appeal has been made to the (hated) United Nations, won't be the last.   The UN is not in a position to outlaw anything, in spite of what some "body" might request.   What is to be discussed, here, is one of those imponderables, except for a few buzz words that cause some Americans to hyperventilate (add the "UN" to the list).

Black Lives Matter
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 1:35PM #15
BDboy
Posts: 6,289

The beauty of US law is "Free speech" is protected.  As part of "Check and balance" process there are laws to curb "Hate speech", slander or liebel.


IMHO the Qur'an burning clowns could have been checked through existing US laws. The does not have any road map to WTC. The irony is Qur'an prohibited killing of innocent people in CLEAR terms ( Source: Al-Qur'an 5:32).


 


Personally I do not think any pastor or any misguided group can do any harm to the Qur'an. It came from God and He'll protect him book. Our Lord works amazing ways.


it seems [ From the posts I read] some obscure overseas based "Islamic" organization making such claims. It seems like they have no exposure to US laws.  


IF we see some sample of how US Muslims are addressing the situation. It seems like they are doing it peacefully using all faith group to make their points.


www.icna.org/?option=com_content&view=ar...


 


www.isna.net/news.aspx [ The largest Muslim organization in north america ]


 


See some of my friends are getting worked up over NOTHING!!


 


Shalom.


 

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 2:23PM #16
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Sep 24, 2010 -- 9:26AM, IreneAdler wrote:


So is the Don't Call People Names resolution next?


 


Irene.





Name-calling is best dealt with using what I call Argumentum ad Pee-Wee Herman.


"I know you are -- but, what am I?"

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 2:29PM #17
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Sep 23, 2010 -- 7:52PM, bb-15 wrote:


Sep 23, 2010 -- 6:32PM, Ur2 wrote:


I voted and was astounded at the number of people that want this stupid f*cking law. HALF!


Thanx,


Ur2




This doesn't surprise me. There are lots of people in the US who want to pass constitutional amendments in favor of organized public school prayer, and against flag burning. Being against scripture burning goes along with this POV imo.


Free speech, and separation of church/religion and state is a pretty new idea and isn't agreed with by much of the world.


BB ;-)





Two problems going on here, IMO.


In America, the culture has become so secular, so materialistic,  so detached from nature and so focused upon the great-big "me" that religion has been reduced to a personal hobby that some people dabble in from time to time. It's hard for us to comprehend a culture, such as Native American Indians, or many Muslims, where religion/spirituality infuses and defines nearly every aspect of life and culture. Therefore, nothing is really held "sacred" in this society, and it's considered great fun to poke fun at just about anything. IOW, American culture is a bit like a 15-year-old smart-assed nihilist.


On the other hand, those in deeply religious cultures, who take offense at American crassness, forget some very basic lesson of their own religion -- that the jabs of non-believers don't mean anything and are nothing to get worked up about.  And, that threatening people, much less actually visiting violence upon them, is flat-out wrong. So, in that case, the culture is somewhat like a grumpy old man who expects everybody to think the same way he does.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 2:45PM #18
piecesofthewhole
Posts: 1,380

Sep 24, 2010 -- 9:57AM, Ebon wrote:


Actually, it's rather more complicated than that. The UN Human Rights Council adopted a resolution that barred religious defamation but that's not the same thing as offences against religion. Defamation prevents people telling inflammatory lies about a religion like "the Jews want to drink your blood", it doesn't prevent people offending you faith an it was adopted as a non-binding resolution by the HRC, not the full UN itself.


I can't see it passing the full UN to become a binding resolution either. Among other things, the UN charter guarantees freedom of religion and freedom of speech and expression so long as they do not infringe on the other enumerated rights (the ECHR contains similar language). Since a resolution against offenses to religion would violate all three, the chances of it passing are very slim indeed.




Thanks for the information, Ebon!




Sep 24, 2010 -- 2:23PM, mytmouse57 wrote:



Name-calling is best dealt with using what I call Argumentum ad Pee-Wee Herman.


"I know you are -- but, what am I?"




(laughing)

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 24, 2010 - 2:48PM #19
piecesofthewhole
Posts: 1,380

Sep 24, 2010 -- 2:29PM, mytmouse57 wrote:



Two problems going on here, IMO.


In America, the culture has become so secular, so materialistic,  so detached from nature and so focused upon the great-big "me" that religion has been reduced to a personal hobby that some people dabble in from time to time. It's hard for us to comprehend a culture, such as Native American Indians, or many Muslims, where religion/spirituality infuses and defines nearly every aspect of life and culture. Therefore, nothing is really held "sacred" in this society, and it's considered great fun to poke fun at just about anything. IOW, American culture is a bit like a 15-year-old smart-assed nihilist.


On the other hand, those in deeply religious cultures, who take offense at American crassness, forget some very basic lesson of their own religion -- that the jabs of non-believers don't mean anything and are nothing to get worked up about.  And, that threatening people, much less actually visiting violence upon them, is flat-out wrong. So, in that case, the culture is somewhat like a grumpy old man who expects everybody to think the same way he does.




Excellent assessment!

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 25, 2010 - 9:27AM #20
Agnosticspirit
Posts: 9,244

Sep 24, 2010 -- 2:29PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Two problems going on here, IMO.


In America, the culture has become so secular, so materialistic,  so detached from nature and so focused upon the great-big "me" that religion has been reduced to a personal hobby that some people dabble in from time to time. It's hard for us to comprehend a culture, such as Native American Indians, or many Muslims, where religion/spirituality infuses and defines nearly every aspect of life and culture. Therefore, nothing is really held "sacred" in this society, and it's considered great fun to poke fun at just about anything. IOW, American culture is a bit like a 15-year-old smart-assed nihilist.


Well said, but I don't necessarily agree with such a dim view that because we question everything, there is nothing sacred left. We poke fun at everything, we criticize everything, we inspect everything in the light of reason... including ourselves. That concept IS sacred to American thought. 


With the economic crash in 2008, many of us have been led to separate our desires from our needs and recognizing we don't always need the latest electronic toy, handbag, or McMansion. Many of us are and have been making changes to our way of life to reduce or impact on Big Blue.


I'm more optimistic that a focus on renewable energy, organic produce, cruelty free cosmetics/personal care goods, and free range meat is more than just a fad but evidence of our increasing consciousness.


Sep 24, 2010 -- 2:29PM, mytmouse57 wrote:




On the other hand, those in deeply religious cultures, who take offense at American crassness, forget some very basic lesson of their own religion -- that the jabs of non-believers don't mean anything and are nothing to get worked up about.  And, that threatening people, much less actually visiting violence upon them, is flat-out wrong. So, in that case, the culture is somewhat like a grumpy old man who expects everybody to think the same way he does.



Even worse than the grumpy old man when some members of deeply religious cultures try to import their misery and afflict the rest of us with their own fanaticism.

Tribalism, ethnocentricism, racism, nationalism, and FEAR is the Mind Killer... >:(

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