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| 3 years ago :: Sep 16, 2010 - 8:20PM #381 | |
Erey
Posts: 15,225
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Look here is my deal - most americans that are muslim are probably wishing this were not such a big deal. They are wishing that the pope and clinton and Obama and the FBI did not have to get involved. Because if it had been burning bibles, or torahs or Mao's little red book most certainly it would be a non-issue. They are wishing that their bretheren in faith would not act like toddlers on crack that need special treatment. Many of these muslims also wish that they would relocate the Cordoba House out of consideration of the majority american feelings since america has been pretty good to muslims both before and after 9/11. Most american muslims also would protect this draw mohammad girl in CA if they had the opportunity to do so. But alas these things have a life of their own. Terry Jones did not in fact burn in Korans (in public anyway). A few guys on the steps of the capital did. In riots 2 afghans died in response to this story and 15 Kashmirs died also in response to this story. It hardly seems worth it to me. My take is when you start to make all kinds of demands for tolerance, you need to come from a place that is ready to give tolerance. We don't see alot of tolerance comming from the muslim world but we do see alot of demands for tolerance comming from them. This is a shame because I do believe most muslims probably would love to get to know different kinds of people and want to fit in more than be a pain in the ass. I do think there is some more recent development in the global muslim culture that encourages being a pain in the ass - this is the impression in recenet years. I say this while thinking of some of the muslims I have known through my kids schooling and some of the muslims on Bnet who routinely made posts saying they felt everyone else should inconvenience themselves for muslims. The majority want a good job, good money and the opportunity to pursue their education and various interests. They want all this without drawing any negative attention, America has given them this opportunity and they are gladly enjoying it. The healing is going to have to come more from the muslim side than the western or secular side. Tolerance has been streached up to a tight point and now there needs to be some give from there side. I have no doubt that we will see plenty of examples in the future of muslims being real humanitarians. I don't want Koran's burned - but I don't want any one group getting special treatment either and making special problems for the rest of the world out of a unfortunate sense of entitlement. I don't want the location of a mosque to be such a sticking point for so many of my fellow americans but I don't want people to be afraid to speak out because muslims are a special group and somehow deserve more deference than any other religious group. I think people have a right to their feelings that building a mosque so close to ground zero indeed makes many Islamists to feel triumphant - I havea right to be bothered by that. These issues are just for today, tomorrow these won't matter as much and we will all have new reasons to be outraged. |
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 16, 2010 - 8:24PM #382 | |
rabello
Posts: 17,284
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Just saw this....
Matter of interpretation. Whether it's because of religion or because of political differences is an open question. Non-Muslim "experts" trying to "teach" the rest of us all about Islam insist it's because of religion, which is certainly convenient for us to believe. Doesn't make it true just because some (maybe a lot of) Americans believe it.
Maybe you all are talking about "radical islamists" that are "over there." The topic is about the targetting of a group of American citizens, in America, by Americans, with something called "Burn a Koran Day" in America, not in Yemen, or Saudi Arabia, or Kuwait, but in American, coupled with the campaign to banish Islam from America, whether it be through destroying/banning mosques, destroying/banning the Qu'ran, or preventing Muslims from entering the US, or just denying civil rights to Muslim-Americans because they are Muslims. The topic is about what's happening in America. Why some people want to use it to bash "radical islamists" "over there" is not clear, at all. |
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 16, 2010 - 8:34PM #383 | |
whirligngg
Posts: 1,871
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Rabello--hi. You say-- "The topic is about what's happening in America. Why some people want to use it to bash "radical islamists" "over there" is not clear, at all."
Keep at it. You must be hitting a very large nerve because the deflections and "rationales" and downright denials are coming thick and fast.
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 16, 2010 - 8:45PM #384 | |
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rabello
Posts: 17,284
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Hi back, WGal. It's the same tired old stuff I would read constantly years ago on the old Debate Islam board; the same tired old stuff anybody can read on "jihad watch" or "daniel pipes dot org"; the thing that brought me to that board was the "MUSLIMS KILLING MUSLIMS IS GOOD NEWS" quip (remember that one, in all caps, usually ended with an exclamation point?) that migrated there, the thing that caused me to finally just ignore it (that board) was the sheer level of intolerance and Islam/Muslim bashing by non-Muslim "experts" that was routine, back then, on that board (and probably still is -- I wouldn't know...life is too short to spend taking in other people's prejudices as if they warrant such debate). I don't see "Burn a Koran Day" in America as analogous to burning a Bible or a flag. It is analogous to the KKK burning a cross on Shirley Shirroud's mothers lawn after her father was murdered. Of course, in the pre civil rights south, the murder got away with it, scott free. |
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 16, 2010 - 9:13PM #385 | |
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Erey
Posts: 15,225
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Moderated by
rangerken
on Sep 16, 2010 - 09:22PM
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 16, 2010 - 9:21PM #386 | |
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rabello
Posts: 17,284
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When have I ever done that?
I have the same right to my opinions that you say you have about what you think Osama bin Laden and his ilk would think about a westernized community center built by New York City residents who are Muslim, modeled after the Young Men's Christian Association's community centers. Burning a Qu'ran on "Burn a Koran Day" in America isn't political speech, it is hate speech targetting one group of American citizens, much in the way burning a cross was/is targetting another group of American citizens. If you can't see the analogy, so be it. I have the same right to my opinions that you say you have about what you think Osama bin Laden and his ilk would think about a westernized community center built by New York City residents who are Muslim, modeled after the Young Men's Christian Association's community centers. Burning a Qu'ran on "Burn a Koran Day" in America isn't political speech, it is hate speech targetting one group of American citizens, much in the way burning a cross was/is targetting another group of American citizens. If you can't see the analogy, so be it.
Moderated by
rangerken
on Sep 16, 2010 - 09:24PM
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 16, 2010 - 9:22PM #387 | |
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whirligngg
Posts: 1,871
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EREY says-- Why do you regularly minimize and diminish all the killings done in the name of Koran burnings"
EXACTLY how many of those were-- --Muslims killing Christians --Muslims killing Muslims --Cops killing Muslims?
Moderated by
rangerken
on Sep 16, 2010 - 09:24PM
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 17, 2010 - 9:41AM #388 | |
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848
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I have the same right to my opinions that you say you have about what you think Osama bin Laden and his ilk would think about a westernized community center built by New York City residents who are Muslim, modeled after the Young Men's Christian Association's community centers. Burning a Qu'ran on "Burn a Koran Day" in America isn't political speech, it is hate speech targetting one group of American citizens, much in the way burning a cross was/is targetting another group of American citizens. If you can't see the analogy, so be it.
Rab, Evidently some people CAN'T see the analogy. Analog thinking is a higher cognitive function, you know.
Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs. Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it. |
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 17, 2010 - 12:53PM #389 | |
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rabello
Posts: 17,284
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All I really wanted to know from the "Pastor" Jones "Apologists" is: Why are Muslim-Americans required to take the blame and to atone for the bad acts of some Saudi Arabians and Yemenese and a few others, significantly no Afghans or Iraqi's? Did we, as a people, forget the lessons from the Japanese-American experience during WWII, for which we eventually paid restitution? I think I'll be waiting forever for that answer. |
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| 3 years ago :: Sep 17, 2010 - 12:55PM #390 | |
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Christianlib
Posts: 21,848
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I imagine you will. Hope you aren't holding your breath.
Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs. Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it. |
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