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Switch to Forum Live View American Church Plans a Quran Burning: More Glimpses Of Our ‚ÄúChristian‚ÄĚ Nation At Work
4 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2010 - 12:55PM #1
Druac
Posts: 12,231


The Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, said it will burn the Islamic holy book Wednesday, the ninth anniversary of the terror attacks. Local officials have denied a permit for the bonfire on the church's grounds, but the center - which made headlines last year by distributing T-shirts that said "Islam is of the Devil" - insists it will go ahead with the plan.




www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/04/us-qur...


 

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2010 - 1:47PM #2
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

September 11th, falls on a Saturday this year.


So that this church plans to burn the Koran on Wednesday prior, is a bit off the mark if their stated intent is to make a statement regarding the terrorism radical Islam effected on 911, nine years ago.


As most learned people know, America is not a Christian nation. It was not founded as a Christian nation and it's government is not a Christian theocracy.


But what bigots and zealots of the persuasion described by the article in the OP fail to realize is that a planned burning like that described as the fate for copies of the Koran, another religions holy book, is that the act resembles the same mentality as was afforded by those terrorist radical Muslims who boarded three planes on September 11th, 2001, intent on making a statement against the great Satan United States.


What permits this minister to do this, even though he was not given a permit by the city and Gainesville officials have threatened fines if he goes through with this, is the first amendment. Which says nothing about needing a permit, so as to effect one's freedom of speech. In fact, requiring one is a matter of conflict, but that's another post.


What's interesting is, there is yet no press regarding Muslims responding by burning the Bible in retaliation. Though one can only imagine what would transpire if this article did report that on 911, a Mosque in Gainesville was going to burn the Christian Bible.

It would be a much hotter issue, pun intended, than we witness to date I'm sure. But none the less, it's the message that would be conveyed in either case. That for some the supreme being they worship is thought to require their terrorist activities, their bigoted behaviors, in order to insure that beings supreme presence on it's created earth. As if a god requires mortal assistance to send the message, it's the only one there.


 


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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 4:14PM #3
Idbc
Posts: 4,597

Howdy


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


September 11th, falls on a Saturday this year.


So that this church plans to burn the Koran on Wednesday prior, is a bit off the mark if their stated intent is to make a statement regarding the terrorism radical Islam effected on 911, nine years ago. 



I think that they will disagree. 


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


As most learned people know, America is not a Christian nation. It was not founded as a Christian nation and it's government is not a Christian theocracy.



Do most learned people know that America is not a Christian nation?


America is a Christian democracy.  Separation of Church and State is a Christian and supported by the Bible.   Jesus said "Render on to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and on to God what is God's" .  Jesus also said "My kingdom is not of this world." Jn 18:36  


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


But what bigots and zealots of the persuasion described by the article in the OP fail to realize is that a planned burning like that described as the fate for copies of the Koran, another religions holy book, is that the act resembles the same mentality as was afforded by those terrorist radical Muslims who boarded three planes on September 11th, 2001, intent on making a statement against the great Satan United States.



Comparing the burning of the Quran to the Muslims who boarded three planes on 9/11  is a very, very, very, very, stupid comparision.  They do not even come close to degree and intent.


Burning a Bible in a Muslim country or even in this country by a Muslim would resemble the same mentality as the Christians burning the Quran.  Apples to Apples not  Apples to Watermelons. 


 


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


What permits this minister to do this, even though he was not given a permit by the city and Gainesville officials have threatened fines if he goes through with this, is the first amendment. Which says nothing about needing a permit, so as to effect one's freedom of speech. In fact, requiring one is a matter of conflict, but that's another post. 



His conscience.  Such as it is.  Now I do not know if he did or did not apply for a permit. 


But if he did should it be granted?


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


What's interesting is, there is yet no press regarding Muslims responding by burning the Bible in retaliation.



What is also interesting that Muslims in Indonesia are pressuring the US to suppress free speech.


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:

 Though one can only imagine what would transpire if this article did report that on 911, a Mosque in Gainesville was going to burn the Christian Bible.



I might imagine that the reaction would not be as strong as that of the Muslims.


I would not imagine protesters pressuring Indonesia or Saudia Arabia to stop the burning.


 


 



Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


It would be a much hotter issue, pun intended, than we witness to date I'm sure. But none the less, it's the message that would be conveyed in either case.



I think it would be a much, much cooler issue. 


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:

 That for some the supreme being they worship is thought to require their terrorist activities, their bigoted behaviors, in order to insure that beings supreme presence on it's created earth. As if a god requires mortal assistance to send the message, it's the only one there.



I would prefer Christians burning the Quran to Muslim committing terrorism and murdering innocent civilians any day. 


It is not that God either requires mortal assistance it is that the true faith, the true religion must be defended from......those people.  Wink


Hopefully the Muslims will react in the same way as the did during the "Draw Muhammad Day".


 


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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 4:20PM #4
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,823
What holy books would Jesus burn?
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"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 4:47PM #5
catboxer
Posts: 14,012

Just goes to show you, the biggest threat to our freedoms and what we stand for comes from Americans.


Our own biggest enemy.

Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 4:52PM #6
Zaracyn
Posts: 656

I think burning the Qur'an in this manner, by any so-called "christian" church would be a bad idea and sends the wrong message, no matter how vehemently they may disagree with it.


I'm thinking "Do unto others as one would have them do unto you" might deserve a little more thought, in this case...but that's just my gut reaction (and opinion).

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 5:02PM #7
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,162

 


Treaty  of Peace and Frienship between the United States and  The Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary


Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following   treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read   aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the   treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.


Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


Signed and sealed at Tripoli of Barbary the 3d day of Junad in the year of the Hegira 1211— corresponding with the 4th day of November, 1796, by


JUSSOF BASHAW MAHOMET, Bey.
MAMET, Treasurer.
AMET, Minister of Marine.
SOLIMAN KAYA.
GALIL, General of the Troops.
MAHOMET, Commander of the City.
AMET, Chamberlain.
ALLY, Chief of the Divan.
MAMET, Secretary.


Signed and sealed at Algiers, the 4th day of Argill, 1211—corresponding with the 3d day of
January, 1797, by


HASSAN BASHAW, Dey,


And by the agent Plenipotentiary of the United States of America,


JOEL BARLOW.


 

‚ÄúI seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.‚ÄĚ Edward Gibbon
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 5:03PM #8
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

First they burn books.  Then they burn people.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 5:13PM #9
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053



 



Afghans protest church's plans to burn Quran




Sep 06, 2010 

By Rahim Faiez




 


KABUL - Hundreds of Afghans railed against the United States and  called for President Barack Obama's death at a rally in the capital  Monday to denounce an American church's plans to burn the Islamic holy  book on 9/11.


The crowd in Kabul, numbering as many as 500, chanted "Long live  Islam" and "Death to America" as they listened to fiery speeches from  members of parliament, provincial council deputies, and Islamic clerics  who criticized the U.S. and demanded the withdrawal of foreign troops  from the country. Some threw rocks when a U.S. military convoy passed,  but speakers shouted at them to stop and told police to arrest anyone  who disobeyed.


The Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center announced  plans to burn copies of the Quran on church grounds to mark the ninth  anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, but has been denied a permit  to set a bonfire. The church, which made headlines last year after  distributing T-shirts that said "Islam is of the Devil," has vowed to  proceed with the burning. (Continues)


 


I guess they figure, while they burn the American flag in Muslim countries and scream, death to America, that that is perfectly permissible because most American's can agree to disagree without killing each other.


Come Wednesday, it will be a very interesting update to this story. Especially if everyone there, and especially the minister leading the fire, are arrested by Federal officials. 


As misplaced as the act is, burning the Koran so as to appear as intent on sending a message of hate and intolerance to Islam, as did the terrorists on the planes that flew into the WTC and the ground of PA  on 9-11 intend to send their own message as death to America, and then succeeded in killing thousands of us and others, is simply a clashing of swords striking hate for hate.


Fascinating report.
Can you imagine if a march occurred anywhere in the U.S. when a Muslim countries people burned the American flag and threatened death to that countries President?


We'd have a faction of American's here that would be across the street from that crowd, holding up signs calling the other protesters Xenophobic, and asking for tolerance of terrorists abroad, because we should love them like our brothers for lighting a fire. 


The mistake the minister in Gainesville makes, is believing America is a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles. However, the example he sets in holding that erroneous belief, makes his ideal Christianity look just as terroristically inclined as radical Islam.


I look forward to Wednesday. It should be an interesting bit of news world wide. Undecided


 


 


"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2010 - 5:37PM #10
Weepingangelofthetrees
Posts: 2,053

Sep 6, 2010 -- 4:14PM, Idbc wrote:


Howdy


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


September 11th, falls on a Saturday this year.


So that this church plans to burn the Koran on Wednesday prior, is a bit off the mark if their stated intent is to make a statement regarding the terrorism radical Islam effected on 911, nine years ago. 



I think that they will disagree.


Yes, well one can't help that they're stupid,  because their message misses the mark by 4 days. God knows, Hate has an agenda!


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


As most learned people know, America is not a Christian nation. It was not founded as a Christian nation and it's government is not a Christian theocracy.


Do most learned people know that America is not a Christian nation?


America is a Christian democracy.   



No, it is not. Nor has it ever been. That's why there's freedom of religion, and by implication, freedom from the one religion that would think to believe so, in error.


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


But what bigots and zealots of the persuasion described by the article in the OP fail to realize is that a planned burning like that described as the fate for copies of the Koran, another religions holy book, is that the act resembles the same mentality as was afforded by those terrorist radical Muslims who boarded three planes on September 11th, 2001, intent on making a statement against the great Satan United States.


Comparing the burning of the Quran to the Muslims who boarded three planes on 9/11  is a very, very, very, very, stupid comparison.  They do not even come close to degree and intent.


You do realize that repeating "very" indicates a mental disorder tantamount to installing multiple exclamation points at the end of a sentence?!


The burning of the Koran, the burning of American flags by Muslims in Muslim countries, the hijacking and crashing of United American flights into the WTC and the ground of Pennsylvania, all send the same message. Hate!


 


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


What permits this minister to do this, even though he was not given a permit by the city and Gainesville officials have threatened fines if he goes through with this, is the first amendment. Which says nothing about needing a permit, so as to effect ones freedom of speech. In fact, requiring one is a matter of conflict, but that's another post.


His conscience.  Such as it is.  Now I do not know if he did or did not apply for a permit. 


But if he did should it be granted?


Well, when municipalities and towns grant permits to the Fred Phelps cult, so they can protest at American soldiers funerals, sure!


It's the right of free speech. Just as protesters that show up to oppose the Phelps cult, speak freely against his twisted notion of the one and only way to believe in the one and only god that sent him there.


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


What's interesting is, there is yet no press regarding Muslims responding by burning the Bible in retaliation.


What is also interesting that Muslims in Indonesia are pressuring the US to suppress free speech.


As are the radicals in Afghanistan. Who figure their terrorist tendencies may persuade us to shut up, else they'll kill an American(s), as they're already shouting for Obama's end.


Love that religion of Peace!
LOVE IT.


 


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:

 Though one can only imagine what would transpire if this article did report that on 911, a Mosque in Gainesville was going to burn the Christian Bible.


I might imagine that the reaction would not be as strong as that of the Muslims.


I would not imagine protesters pressuring Indonesia or Saudia Arabia to stop the burning.


  I would imagine, as many Muslims in Muslim countries have burned the American flag, the dead contractors blown up by IED's at roadside, to then hang their charred bodies over the side of a bridge somewhere in Iraq, wouldn't give a care if we did object! They kill us, because they hate us. Asking them to stop proving that, would be a stupid waste of time.



Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:


It would be a much hotter issue, pun intended, than we witness to date I'm sure. But none the less, it's the message that would be conveyed in either case.


I think it would be a much, much cooler issue.


  Ah yes, but we'll never know.


 


Sep 5, 2010 -- 1:47PM, Weepingangelofthetrees wrote:

 That for some the supreme being they worship is thought to require their terrorist activities, their bigoted behaviors, in order to insure that beings supreme presence on it's created earth. As if a god requires mortal assistance to send the message, it's the only one there.


I would prefer Christians burning the Quran to Muslim committing terrorism and murdering innocent civilians any day. 


It is not that God either requires mortal assistance it is that the true faith, the true religion must be defended from......those people. 


Hopefully the Muslims will react in the same way as the did during the "Draw Muhammad Day".



Any faith who's faithful believe they are ordained or commanded by their god, to slaughter and oppress people in order to install one and only religion across the whole world, is not only terrorism cloaked in myth, but patently psychotic as is evidenced by creating a higher power, in their lower violently unconscious image. God creates the whole universe but needs people to make sure people know he's god?
That wouldn't even qualify as a valid punch line in a joke.


And let's hope you're not speaking about all Muslims, with regard to reacting the same way as they did during the DMD.


Draw Muhammad Day backfires for Seattle cartoonist


Especially when, in a Muslim country, a teacher was threatened with lashing for gifting a teddy bear to a Muslim boy who chose to name it, "Muhammad". So drawing Muhammad Day, is the best way to inspire the terroristically inclined to come out of the woodwork with an excuse to exact violence yet again.




"Remember, Jesus would rather constantly shame gays than let orphans have a family."
Stephen Colbert
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