Jun 25, 2010 -- 5:15PM, solfeggio wrote:

...

Lab tests and vaccinations are free, as are mammograms for women up to the age of 70. 

We've got a grandson with cerebral palsy and epilepsy, and he needs all sorts of treatments and medications that he gets for free at the public hospital, and various supplies that are free as well.  The state even subsidises his special school. 

Flu shots for older people are free, too.

Nothing is FREE... not even in New Zealand. It is all paid for by taxes.

Jun 25, 2010 -- 5:48PM, solfeggio wrote:

I think the benefits of a computerised medical system outweigh the drawbacks, because it really is a good thing for any medical professional to be able to get your history at a glance rather than you having to try to remember what medicines you've taken years ago, or what medical problems you had that you've forgotten about.

 

And, you know another thing that is good about computers is that, when a doctor writes a prescription, he does it on the computer, so there are no problems with illegible handwriting.  Also, when you go in and make an appointment, they give you a little slip printed on the computer telling you the day and the doctor.  All this is very convenient.

 

One of the things about doctors here, and perhaps in the Netherlands or England or other countries, is that our doctors are middle class and live in 'regular' neighbourhoods rather than in the lap of luxury as we imagine American doctors do.  Physicians here are not 'gods' or millionaires.  They're just regular people.

 

Most people refer to their GPs by their first names!  And, if you go into the med centre to make an appointment, you could just tell the receptionist that you want to see Tim, or Cynthia, or whoever, and they know who you mean!

 

We always get the impression that American doctors live very well, which is why they charge so much, and that the insurance companies and HMOs are scamming people, too, and charging more than they should. 

 

I guess that is the difference between socialised medicine and the American system.  In many different discussions over the years in these forums, there have been heated discussions about socialised medicine, with some people really against the whole idea.  Some Americans, at least, are afraid the country will end up like Russia if they would go this route.

 

Well, I can tell you that having free hospitals and many subsidies doesn't make you a communist.  It's simply that your tax dollars are being spent on YOU rather than to allow doctors to go on cruises or generals to fight foreign wars.

IMO, the fear of socialized medicine is so irrational that it should be treated as a mental illness.  People are not thinking. 

We have backdoor socialized medicine.  Our local governments pick up tab for indigent care and pass it on to us taxpayers.  Indigents don't get regular care most of their treatment is in emergency centers which can cost up to ten times what an office visit is.

Also, most Americans don't realize is that most of us are one illness or accident away from poverty no matter how much insurance you have.  My insurance is better than average ("they" say.)  Yet, if you have pay 15% of a bill after the deductible.  My mother's colon surgery cost $250,000.  That was relatively minor surgery.  Full blown cancer or Parkinson's disease can ruin even seriously wealthy people.  With insurance.

The thing is people do "get" this after they have that one illness or accident

Jun 25, 2010 -- 7:04PM, mountain_man wrote:

 

Jun 25, 2010 -- 4:08PM, Erey wrote:

Well our HC is expensive.[/quote

You mean over priced.

...How does this end up being 675 dollars in the first place?

Because the insurance companies got almost half of your money.

You are freaking right.  I figure I may have paid $250,000 to insurance companies over the years.  That is a quarter of a million dollars.  I had one health scare where they paid 80%.  They were supposed to pay 85% but by the time I paid my 15% I didn't have any money left to sue them.  Nonetheless, what they paid was wayyyyyyy lower than $250,000.   They never covered anything preventative.  No physicals.  Any test that my GOOD doctor wanted, they balked at.  So, I paid all physicals and tests out of pocket. I did do physicals back then. 

I would have been better off with it in savings.  It is just ridiculous.  My case is so much better than people who have lost their jobs.  God help them. 

Now, it is an employer market.  Employers, sneakily, get rid of employees with cancer or who are old.  So, they lose their jobs and insurance.  That is demoralizing.  Use people up in their best years and then toss them out as if they were yesterday's trash. 

Americans have a lot of pressures.  I had a friend from Japan who lived here several years and she commented on the stress level of living here.  We are sleep deprived, we work more than 40 hours a week and have no choice in the matter. I spent several years of my twenties working 3 jobs, 62-72 hours per week.  I have never had an employer who wanted you to use your vacation leave. It is almost like slacking if you take it.  If you do, you have to endure months of retribution when you get back.    I think France is smart to make people take August off.  That alone probably increases their lifespan. 

 

We are becoming less and less a people oriented society.  It is going to kill us. 

 

 

 

 

Jun 25, 2010 -- 10:05PM, appy20 wrote:

Jun 25, 2010 -- 7:04PM, mountain_man wrote:

 

 

 

Jun 25, 2010 -- 4:08PM, Erey wrote:

Well our HC is expensive.[/quote

 

You mean over priced.

 

...How does this end up being 675 dollars in the first place?

 

Because the insurance companies got almost half of your money.

 

 

You are freaking right.  I figure I may have paid $250,000 to insurance companies over the years.  That is a quarter of a million dollars.  I had one health scare where they paid 80%.  They were supposed to pay 85% but by the time I paid my 15% I didn't have any money left to sue them.  Nonetheless, what they paid was wayyyyyyy lower than $250,000.   They never covered anything preventative.  No physicals.  Any test that my GOOD doctor wanted, they balked at.  So, I paid all physicals and tests out of pocket. I did do physicals back then. 

 

I would have been better off with it in savings.  It is just ridiculous.  My case is so much better than people who have lost their jobs.  God help them. 

 

Now, it is an employer market.  Employers, sneakily, get rid of employees with cancer or who are old.  So, they lose their jobs and insurance.  That is demoralizing.  Use people up in their best years and then toss them out as if they were yesterday's trash. 

 

Americans have a lot of pressures.  I had a friend from Japan who lived here several years and she commented on the stress level of living here.  We are sleep deprived, we work more than 40 hours a week and have no choice in the matter. I spent several years of my twenties working 3 jobs, 62-72 hours per week.  I have never had an employer who wanted you to use your vacation leave. It is almost like slacking if you take it.  If you do, you have to endure months of retribution when you get back.    I think France is smart to make people take August off.  That alone probably increases their lifespan. 

We are becoming less and less a people oriented society.  It is going to kill us. 

appy, I agree with you and MM about the insurance companies. It is a disgrace.

Until I was about 30 or a bit older families had hospitalization insurance, period. Otherwise we paid for doctor visits, prescriptions, tests, etc. Medicine is much more complicated today. The paper work alone, even when computerized, is incredible: we pay for that, too. In the US we pay more for pharma because we help foot their research bills. Big industry, including insurance companies and pharma, control too much.

I also agree that Americans work too hard. Some of this came from old-time religious values such as ideas that idle hands leading to sin. Either Benjamin Franklin or John Adams remarked in the 1700's upon returning from France that the French work to live and Americans live to work. Our American ability to work hard has propelled us as a nation but it isn't totally healthy. We need to enjoy our leisure and appreciate it.

My husband was a fine cook and he enjoyed the process as well and the end product. I enjoyed the art of cooking, too. He was one hard-working senior Federal bureaucrat but we took fine vacations and enjoyed them. As an old lady some of my favorite lesisure time is just sitting and talking with my grandchildren, often on a porch or deck.

You are also right about our diversity as a nation, but then we get to enjoy southern fried chicken, taco and burritos, Thai and Chinese cuisine, French sauces, and pasta dishes. It is in our own best interests to take time to enjoy them. Wordsworth was English but I have always liked his line : "getting and spending we lay waste our powers".

Right now we are under a system of very strident politics in the US. It wasn't also so and I hope there is a reasonable end to it--not that I'm holding my breath.

I've never thought of countires in competition for the most superior health care. I do think that if it were not for the military-industrial complex, about which Eisenhower cautioned us, we would be able to offer more to our citizens. I have very caustic reactions to those who support this complex which caused so much of our deficit when they deny stimulus to revive our economy, etc. I don't subscribe to "STARVE THE BEAST", either.

Jane

I think it is so sad that Americans have so many problems getting decent, affordable medical care.  I can't believe it was always like that, and I wonder how things got to this point.

How do you suppose the American people can change things?  I guess the best way would be to elect responsible people to Congress who truly understand, and are sympathetic to, the plight of the people. 

What about that new healthcare bill that just passed and about which there was so much talk?  Will that help?

You pay your share of taxes just like everybody else in the industrialised world, at any rate, and you should be getting more for your money. 

I think a large part of the problem, as Jane points out, is the military-industrial complex that seems to have taken over your country.  If only you could manage to channel some of the money that is eaten up by the Pentagon into health care programmes for the people.