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Switch to Forum Live View U.S. begins criminal investigation into oil spill
4 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2010 - 7:52AM #11
Commaholly
Posts: 146

LOL, I don't think it was purposeful either, in a "geeeee let's spill a ton of oil and destroy the entire gulf coast" kind of way,,,,


 


what I think it WAS that may be appropriate for prosecution was an extreme case of reckless disregard for the situation,,,,,


there are varying degrees of liability when a "mistake" happens, a great deal of which depends on "state of mind and intention",,,,,


 


However someone made the point that prosecution would be about as useful as a parachute guarantee,,,,,,,a very funny yet VERY TRUE observation,,,,,

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2010 - 11:41AM #12
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Jun 9, 2010 -- 7:52AM, Commaholly wrote:


LOL, I don't think it was purposeful either, in a "geeeee let's spill a ton of oil and destroy the entire gulf coast" kind of way,,,,


 


what I think it WAS that may be appropriate for prosecution was an extreme case of reckless disregard for the situation,,,,,


there are varying degrees of liability when a "mistake" happens, a great deal of which depends on "state of mind and intention",,,,,


 


However someone made the point that prosecution would be about as useful as a parachute guarantee,,,,,,,a very funny yet VERY TRUE observation,,,,,




Where I think they are criminally liable is in that they have always claimed that they were prepared for the worst. It is obvious that they were not prepared at all--even for a mishap less catestrophic than this.   Also, I keep hearing about how the Saudis successfully cleaned up a big mess in their part of the world and are willing to offer their expertise here but no one at BP seems to be listening.  The engineers at BP seem to think they have all they answers and they SHOULD have the answers. It is obvious that this is really the first time they have considered this happening.


You just can't go around doing this much damage without paying a price. I believe that BP should be forced out of business.  Their day in the sun should be gone.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2010 - 11:50AM #13
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

If corporations demand, and are granted by the court, the status of "personhood" and the benefits thereof, they should also be required to suffer, when needed, the consequences thereof.


In other words, other than fines, and civil court levies, there should be some kind of corporate punishment equivalent to the kind of result a human "person" would receive for a similar action.


In this kind of case, I think there should be, in effect, a Corporate Death Penalty.  This kind of malfeasance removes the right from them to exist and continue to do business.  The company's corporate charter should be revoked, and the company closed down, all of it's US based assets seized, broken up and sold as possible, and the resulting funds used in mitigation of the damage.


It might ALSO not be a bad idea to require all the officers of the coporation to sign a consent decree agreeing to never again work in an energy industry, or for a company that is publically traded in the US.  (The SEC currently does something like this consent with people found guilty of stock manipulation and fraud.)


Would it "hurt" the shareholders?  Yes.  But it would also make shareholders more concerned with the management and activities of the companies they invest in.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 10, 2010 - 6:29AM #14
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Jun 9, 2010 -- 11:50AM, Christianlib wrote:


If corporations demand, and are granted by the court, the status of "personhood" and the benefits thereof, they should also be required to suffer, when needed, the consequences thereof.


In other words, other than fines, and civil court levies, there should be some kind of corporate punishment equivalent to the kind of result a human "person" would receive for a similar action.


In this kind of case, I think there should be, in effect, a Corporate Death Penalty.  This kind of malfeasance removes the right from them to exist and continue to do business.  The company's corporate charter should be revoked, and the company closed down, all of it's US based assets seized, broken up and sold as possible, and the resulting funds used in mitigation of the damage.


It might ALSO not be a bad idea to require all the officers of the coporation to sign a consent decree agreeing to never again work in an energy industry, or for a company that is publically traded in the US.  (The SEC currently does something like this consent with people found guilty of stock manipulation and fraud.)


Would it "hurt" the shareholders?  Yes.  But it would also make shareholders more concerned with the management and activities of the companies they invest in.





I have thought this same thing from day one.  I could not agree more.  Your entire argument is exactly on target.  BP should no longer exist.  They should end

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2010 - 5:16PM #15
Jeanninehunter
Posts: 168

You saw this coming as soon as he uttered the words: Rep. Joe Barton apologizes for his BP apology . 


 During a House hearing, the Texan accused the White House of shaking down the large oil company when both parties agreed to a compensation fund.


In a statement released Thursday, Barton apologized Wednesday's action as a shakedown and he retracted his apology to BP.


"As I told my colleagues yesterday and said again this morning, BP should bear the full financial responsibility for the accident on their lease in the Gulf of Mexico," he said.


 


 


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2010 - 11:41PM #16
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Hello,


 


Where is the International Community? Has the WH refused their help? Does criminal prosececution kill cooperation? This smells like dead fish pardon the pun.


 


love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2010 - 9:23AM #17
appy20
Posts: 10,165

Apparently, BP has been recklessly irresponsible on this site as well as others.  I was stunned that they had over 750 safety violations to Exxon's one.  If that is true, whoever issues these safety violations has some explaining to do as well.  I don't know enough about the oil business to debate all of the technical or regulatory aspects but it does seem there are grounds for throwing BP out of the US.  I do not think BP should ever be allowed to drill in US waters. 

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 18, 2010 - 10:20AM #18
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

Yes, throw them out.  But first freeze and seize all their US-based assets.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2010 - 11:02AM #19
David
Posts: 287

let's get priorities straight..first fix the problem and then point fingers!

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 21, 2010 - 11:50AM #20
TemplarS
Posts: 6,865

Jun 18, 2010 -- 9:23AM, appy20 wrote:


Apparently, BP has been recklessly irresponsible on this site as well as others.  I was stunned that they had over 750 safety violations to Exxon's one.  If that is true, whoever issues these safety violations has some explaining to do as well.  I don't know enough about the oil business to debate all of the technical or regulatory aspects but it does seem there are grounds for throwing BP out of the US.  I do not think BP should ever be allowed to drill in US waters. 





I do not know about the 750:1 ratio.   But BP has a history of cutting corners on safety related issues.  In 2005, they suffered an explosion at a refinery in Texas which killed 15 workers; numerous safety violations were found, and subsequently they were fined by OSHA (I believe, the largest fine ever imposed by that agency) for failing to correct the problems which led to the explosion.


The problems seem to have been compounded in the offshore incident by complete lack of interest on the part of the appropriate regulatory agencies (which were basically staffed by individuals who were in the oil industy's pocket).


It was an accident waiting to happen.


Now, accidents do happen, and they can happen in spite of the best of intentions.  But I do know a bit about this business, and what you need in cases where the consequences of an event are severe are multiple layers of protection.  You do not rely on one safeguard or often even two; and you rigorously follow procedures as regards these safeguards, and take care to maintain them.  Now, a lot of the info on the incident is hearsay and must be taken as such, but just this morning I heard one BP employee say that this was precisely what was not done by BP; the man alleged that one of the blowout preventers had developed a problem which was not fixed, because to do so would have entailed shutting down the operation at a cost of half a million $.   That sort of behavior (if true) is nothing more than Russian roulette; you will get away with it more often than not- but it will catch up with you if you continue to play that game. 

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