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Switch to Forum Live View Firefighters, Architects & Engineers Expose 9-11 from May 8, 2010
4 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2011 - 1:50PM #21
Istvan
Posts: 124

Jan 5, 2011 -- 9:13AM, Spiritualone wrote:


I understand a little better what you are saying, now.  I just think that more investigating is warranted in this case.  I don't necessarily know that it was a huge conspiracy (though I wouldn't put it past our government), but I don't believe we're being told the whole truth either.  You are right though, I am out of my area of expertise and have to rely on information from others.  It's hard to know what to believe.


I certainly feel that the State Department has always squelched investigations of terrorism that got too close to Saudi oil money: look what happened (or, more to the point, didn't happen) after the USS Cole was bombed in Yemen. The Bush Administration obviously exploited the attacks to excuse its land grabs in Iraq and Afghanistan as well as to establish Homeland Security and push the Patriot act through Congress. But that's different than saying that they had foreknowledge of the attacks or even planned them.


Much as I share their anti-Bush sentiment, I've never been too impressed with the 9/11 Truthers commitment to objective inquiry. It seems like they're less interested in finding out what really happened on 9/11 than venting their suspicion and frustration.


-Istvan

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 16, 2011 - 11:48AM #22
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

Jan 4, 2011 -- 5:09PM, Istvan wrote:


 It becomes a factoid war, where the focus is on "anomalies" and not the context for the incident. I agree that our government hasn't always been honest with us. But that's a far cry from believing that our government masterminded a plot to kill thousands of Americans and blame it on terrorists.





There is a question, is the "government"(a dubious term to a degree considering that other powers have more control than government today) prepared to kill hurt and scarifice american people to futher it's agenda?


Look at past history of CIA experiments on Americans including LSD, mind control experiments and much aside the answer is YES.


Interview on russia Today with Ex drug dealer who helped supply money for the CIA


www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-kLt9l2cQg&feat...


QUOTE:-04.00 "It says that the government will scarific their people to accomplish a goal, and this is not the first time they have done that."


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www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dZnwQKj5Bg


Experiments with LSD QUOTE: 02.30 Even a small amount of "LSD 25 is enought to induce a psycotic state in even a healthly minded person"


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www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx2aXPS4hfM&feat...


Experiments on soliders LSD also


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National geographic documentary CIA(SECREAT) experiments


www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXPKhNNHTMQ&feat...


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Documentary, "The living dead" mind control experiments


www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZw8NRCPmSc


-------------------------------------------------------------------


 


Thing is you might want to deny the past and the realities of what some in power are prepared to do to people, the truth speaks for its-self. Many of the experiments carried out were done with people not even aware that they were being experimented on, but then if they know, they can effect the results so "hush hush".


So you might want to live in a illusion where the people in power, wont scarifice people to futher their goals, but reality is they'll do anything.


They might justify the horrors they commit as nessecery, or for the "greater good", but as Oscar Wilde said "Always with the best intencions is the worst work done"


To quote Kurts "THE HORROR, THE HORROR"

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 20, 2011 - 3:36PM #23
Istvan
Posts: 124

Greg Palast, in Armed Madhouse, notes:


"An addiction to helping millionaires help themselves, carelessness about the deaths of thousands and a penchant for mendacity does not mean George and Dick planned the September 11 attack."


Something tells me if there were anything persuasive in this conspiracy theory, people like Greg Palast would be shouting it from the rooftops.


Or is he in on the hoax too?


-Istvan

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 20, 2011 - 9:25PM #24
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

Jan 20, 2011 -- 3:36PM, Istvan wrote:


Greg Palast, in Armed Madhouse, notes:


"An addiction to helping millionaires help themselves, carelessness about the deaths of thousands and a penchant for mendacity does not mean George and Dick planned the September 11 attack."


Something tells me if there were anything persuasive in this conspiracy theory, people like Greg Palast would be shouting it from the rooftops.


Or is he in on the hoax too?


-Istvan





Who knows.


 


Palast was the one that reported on this, I believe:-


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/newsnight/164...


PALAST:
In the eight weeks since the attacks, over 1,000 suspects and potential witnesses have been detained. Yet, just days after the hijackers took off from Boston aiming for the Twin Towers, a special charter flight out of the same airport whisked 11 members of Osama Bin Laden's family off to Saudi Arabia. That did not concern the White House.


Their official line is that the Bin Ladens are above suspicion - apart from Osama, the black sheep, who they say hijacked the family name. That's fortunate for the Bush family and the Saudi royal household, whose links with the Bin Ladens could otherwise prove embarrassing.


(Funny that it implies they already knew, who was to blame just days after the attacks, how long did it take to arrange for all the Bin Ladens to leave America? Not something you can nessecerily do over night)


PALAST:
Does the Bush family also have to worry about political blow-back? The younger Bush made his first million 20 years ago with an oil company partly funded by Salem Bin Laden's chief US representative. Young George also received fees as director of a subsidiary of Carlyle Corporation, a little known private company which has, in just a few years of its founding, become one of Americas biggest defence contractors. His father, Bush Senior, is also a paid advisor. And what became embarrassing was the revelation that the Bin Ladens held a stake in Carlyle, sold just after September 11.


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Besides all that, it is clear that if Bin Laden was involved at all it was just to offer funding to this supposed group and was not involved in the actual planing as I already stated before.


Scape Goat. 



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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2011 - 7:04AM #25
Istvan
Posts: 124

Jan 20, 2011 -- 9:25PM, JoliverJOLLY wrote:


Besides all that, it is clear that if Bin Laden was involved at all it was just to offer funding to this supposed group and was not involved in the actual planing as I already stated before.


Scape Goat. 





Uh, right. Bush & his cronies needed an excuse to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, so they blamed 9/11 on Saudis.


Talk about cunning.


-Istvan

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2011 - 6:26PM #26
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

Jan 21, 2011 -- 7:04AM, Istvan wrote:


Jan 20, 2011 -- 9:25PM, JoliverJOLLY wrote:


Besides all that, it is clear that if Bin Laden was involved at all it was just to offer funding to this supposed group and was not involved in the actual planing as I already stated before.


Scape Goat. 





Uh, right. Bush & his cronies needed an excuse to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, so they blamed 9/11 on Saudis.


Talk about cunning.


-Istvan




 


I was referencing Bin Landen, not Saudis, Saudi Arabia has not been blamed at all.


Lots of quiet loners did it.Smile


Could I ask what you would need to see, to actually consider the possibility that maybe 9-11 was an inside job?


Or are you die hard, not prepared under any streach of the imagination, to even consider it? If that is the case, then what is the point, people like you will allow government and those in power to do anything, and never even consider that they could do wrong.


George Orwel said that "a patriot always seems to have the ability to not only defend the atrosities carried out by their own side but also the profund ability to not know or deny that they happened at all". Basically, it's a quote from memory and could be slightly off.


  

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2011 - 8:17PM #27
Istvan
Posts: 124

Jan 21, 2011 -- 6:26PM, JoliverJOLLY wrote:


Could I ask what you would need to see, to actually consider the possibility that maybe 9-11 was an inside job?



Good question. I'd like to see evidence of the planning and execution of the inside job. I'm assuming in a plot this complicated and crucial, there'd be memos or correspondence that outlines who's supposed to do what when. The notion that so many different spheres of activity would act with such amazing precision without documentation is pretty implausible.


So do we have such a paper trail? Do we even have a coherent, detailed, verifiable scenario of who did what on 9/11? Because so far all we've seen is a lot of factoids that are supposed to add up to prima facie evidence, but nothing persuasive.


-Istvan

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2011 - 10:40AM #28
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

Jan 21, 2011 -- 8:17PM, Istvan wrote:


Jan 21, 2011 -- 6:26PM, JoliverJOLLY wrote:


Could I ask what you would need to see, to actually consider the possibility that maybe 9-11 was an inside job?



Good question. I'd like to see evidence of the planning and execution of the inside job. I'm assuming in a plot this complicated and crucial, there'd be memos or correspondence that outlines who's supposed to do what when. The notion that so many different spheres of activity would act with such amazing precision without documentation is pretty implausible.


So do we have such a paper trail? Do we even have a coherent, detailed, verifiable scenario of who did what on 9/11? Because so far all we've seen is a lot of factoids that are supposed to add up to prima facie evidence, but nothing persuasive.


-Istvan




 


A paper trail would be direct proof, considering that anyone involved in such an activity would either classify or destroy any documentation that could prove it, that is unlikly to emerge.


We do know that a few years before, the American "military", "Security services" did run simulations that looked at planes hitting the pentagon and twin towers, also as stated by the documentary loose change "Charles Burlingame(I believe that is how you spell it) involved in these simulations retired from working at the pentagon, and took a job working for American Airlines, his plane is one that is said to have been hijacked on 911"

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2011 - 11:17AM #29
Istvan
Posts: 124

Jan 24, 2011 -- 10:40AM, JoliverJOLLY wrote:

A paper trail would be direct proof, considering that anyone involved in such an activity would either classify or destroy any documentation that could prove it, that is unlikly to emerge.


It's certainly something we wouldn't expect to see lying around. But don't you think someone might get pangs of conscience about their involvement in the plot, and decide to expose the masterminds? Or someone might use the documents to blackmail another plotter? Or someone might just not dispose of the documentation adequately, and it comes to light by accident?


It just seems like there were way too many people involved to say for sure that all the evidence of the planning was destroyed. And until it comes to light, why should we believe it ever existed?


-Istvan

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2011 - 3:34PM #30
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

Jan 24, 2011 -- 11:17AM, Istvan wrote:


Jan 24, 2011 -- 10:40AM, JoliverJOLLY wrote:

A paper trail would be direct proof, considering that anyone involved in such an activity would either classify or destroy any documentation that could prove it, that is unlikly to emerge.


It's certainly something we wouldn't expect to see lying around. But don't you think someone might get pangs of conscience about their involvement in the plot, and decide to expose the masterminds?




Possibly, yet what would/could happen to anyone that tried? If they were involved and assisted then had a change of heart, it would no doubt be seen as cowardice or treason against the agenda, besides as the prositute "witness" said after the JFK assination "if they can get to him, they can get anyone".


Not forgetting that those in the security service know full well what you get, if you get out of line, just disappear you, bye bye. Or worse. 


 


Jan 24, 2011 -- 11:17AM, Istvan wrote:


 Or someone might use the documents to blackmail another plotter? Or someone might just not dispose of the documentation adequately, and it comes to light by accident?




Wouldn't that be an ammiture thing to do? hardly professional.


As for blackmail, that idea cracks me up, I do not think that people capable of carrying out that type of attack would be easily blackmailed, although it is possible that people higher up could use involvement to black mail those less involved lower down.   


 


Jan 24, 2011 -- 11:17AM, Istvan wrote:


It just seems like there were way too many people involved to say for sure that all the evidence of the planning was destroyed. And until it comes to light, why should we believe it ever existed?


-Istvan






It's a cicular arguement, you'll only consider it a possibility went there is proof(Yet if there was proof it would be a fact), and as there is no direct proof, so you'll never consider it a possibility.


I do not say they did it, fact. I simply say there are lots of things about 9-11 that beg questions.


Sadly thou and here is a reality, even if 100% proof was found, that some rough group in America carried out the attacks for example or the establishment itself did it:-


It would be burried, simply because America could not allow that to be known, the damage to Americas reputation would be too great.


Therefore never will we be allowed to know either way, but speculation will continue just like with JFK.     


There is always this thou: ONN News, 9-11 conspiracy rediculas


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OIXfkXEj0&list...

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