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Switch to Forum Live View Even Some Educated Pro-Israeli Americans Spread Hate Inside Israel/Palestine
5 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2010 - 8:33PM #151
LeahOne
Posts: 16,566

1.  Yes, the part about Hitler's worrying about the boycott does have a direct bearing on this conversation, because we were trying to discover wherefore the immediate-within-one-month backlash (which steadily grew worse) against Jews after that declaration of the boycott.


>>>>I think the 'backlash' idea is simply BS:  the plans were in the works from the gt-go.  READ Luther's words in the link ....see how like the Nazi plans they were.


 2.  "All the rest of Europe and the USA" ...that came much later than the time and the issue we were considering.  You could just as well cite that inclination for Stalin and a whole bunch of other people; it is not peculiar only to the Third Reich.


>>>>SO?  It happened:  the Nazis attacked *after* 'peace in our time', didn't they?  And we weren't discussing Stalin:  we were discussing Nazi Germany and their extremely obvious intent to attack the rest of Europe.  Let's not forget their adventure in Spain, hoing their tactics and refining their equipment.....


3.  Yes I've heard about Mennonites and Amish people, but I don't see what you're saying here.  People in the USA didn't (at least to my knowledge so far) and don't have bitter feelings against those groups.


>>>>Not now, but when they refused to serve as soldiers *and* they spoke German.....and they are an idenitfiable 'alien' group.   And there were quite a few conscientious objectors to WWI, by the way.  No, I don't know what liberty cabbage is. 
>>>> We call it 'sauerkraut' now.


4.  "It boggles the modern mind, doesn't it, to think that the US would EVER not step in to support Britain in a war?"


 Yes, it does ...the modern mind.  But that's because we have grown used to the foreign entanglements against which Jefferson and others warned.  People were not one bit used to those entanglements back then.


>>>>>> ???  You seem to be thinking of something very different than I here. 


5. "Oh, and thanks for showing me your 'all Jews are rich' card !  That one should go in the discard pile..."


Will you please cease and desist, in attempts to portray me as an antisemite ?  


>>>> Oh, that's funny!  I'm not trying to portray you as anything.  I'm simply observing that I do not like that 'argument'.   Your words are verging on what I'd consider a personal attack, IMO.


I don't think all Jews are rich, but you know dang well how impressively Jews were represented in professions such as law, medicine, etc., the reason being probably that Ashkenazi Jews have generally around 12 to 14 IQ points on most other groups except Indians (Asian Indians).


>>>>>What I know is how little many Jews make:  I'm on the 'food bank' committee for my synagogue.  That kind of stereotype hurts actual people.  And the 'reasoning' behind it is fallacious.


I'd like you to research your nonsense about Askenazim:  my Sephardi relatives would feel very offended, lol!  And so would the Goyische side of the family.... 


Let's see - we were forbidden to own land, join a guild, engage in commerce - what's left?  Learn about finances, or get so much education you're too valuable to not be protected from the murderers.   Or be a luftmensch.....As a priest once pointed out to me, the ONE thing I can get myself which you canNOT take from me short of killing me, is an education.   If Jews -Askenazi, Sephardi, Mizrachi - are 'more intelligent' than most ethnic groups, it's likely due to the stresses and strictures placed upon us by being perennial 'outsiders' in both Christian and Muslim societies.   But IMO, that's a pretty big 'IF" .....12 points is only about one standard deviation for IQ.


6.  "You commented that you're involved with a guy who is 'mostly Jewish...'"


I'm not involved with him [I'm married]; I just have some kind of weird protectiveness about him, very unreasonable.  But when I say he is 'mostly Jewish' I mean that his mother is Jewish and his father is half Jewish.  I guess he would be just Jewish because it's matrilineal (?).


>>>>>  Yes, technically.  I don't understand 'half Jewish'.  One either is, or is not.  My husband is a convert:  our son is Jewish, just like me.  And just like his father.


The thing is, the issue you showcase here is a perplexing one.  You write as though you are talking only about a religion (mentioning Muslims or Christians) but in fact Ashkenazi Jews are an ethnic group.  They have a disease and I think maybe two diseases which are unique to them.  One of them is Bloom's Syndrome (I might be spelling that incorrectly).


>>>>  judaism.about.com/od/health/a/geneticdis...  Here's a link ot the topic.  I'm sadly familiar wth Tay-Sachs. Interesting about Crohn's - my roommate in the hospital had Crohn's and she was Polish/Irish.  (when you're bedridden and can only eat ice chips, it's kind of a 'bonding' experience...)


 


I also want to point out that, although I didn't read your article about Martin Luther, I know he was very hostile towards Jews:  that doesn't mean all of Germany took that attitude !  There have been plenty of other people who felt the same way, such as St. John Chrysostim (sp?) who was not German, and more than one Russian.  I wish you would stop trying to paint Germans with such a broad brush, Leah.


>>>>  Ah, why do you assume I'm 'trying to do' something?   I see you didn't undestand that I was NOT singling out Germans by any means. Just because I didn't mention the housewives of Berlin, who marched to demand the return of their Jewish husbands and got them back, doesn't mean I see Germans as any more monolithic than anyone else.  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenstrasse_prote...


  Perhaps you aren't aware of the influence of Col. Lindberg, exerted on behalf of the Nazis?  Or the speeches of Fr. Coughlin?  Or the deliberate action widely prvalent among the US State Dep't personnel to  obstruct and delay the exit of US- citizen-related Jewish refugees from Hitler's clutches....


 

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5 years ago  ::  Apr 13, 2010 - 5:54AM #152
Pareille
Posts: 191

 


Reposting this to get rid of a technical glitch which it had @ the first posting.


 


Reposting this to get rid of a technical glitch which it had @ the first posting.


Apr 12, 2010 -- 8:33PM, LeahOne wrote:


 


>>>>I think the 'backlash' idea is simply BS:  the plans were in the works from the gt-go.  READ Luther's words in the link ....see how like the Nazi plans they were.


Yes I know you think that.  Okay, I will read them late tonight when I get back home.


 


>>>>SO?  It happened:  the Nazis attacked *after* 'peace in our time', didn't they?  And we weren't discussing Stalin:  we were discussing Nazi Germany and their extremely obvious intent to attack the rest of Europe.  Let's not forget their adventure in Spain, hoing their tactics and refining their equipment.....


So this:  you mentioned the scheme against the rest of Europe and the USA as though that were some kind of proof of a uniquely German mental illness. Please refamiliarize yourself with the context of your remark and you'll see that.


 


>>>>Not now, but when they refused to serve as soldiers *and* they spoke German.....and they are an idenitfiable 'alien' group.   


Okay so you're mentioning that in the service of showing a general American hostility to Germany.  But notice you're talking about after the war had begun, whereas I was discussing the reluctance of most Americans to get involved in the war in the first place. 


 


>>>>I'm simply observing that I do not like that 'argument'.   Your words are verging on what I'd consider a personal attack, IMO.


I beg to differ; you accused me of "showing my All Jews Are Rich Card".


And I am not taking the bait with that stuff about a personal attack either; I find it ludicrous.


 


>>>What I know is how little many Jews make:  I'm on the 'food bank' committee for my synagogue.  That kind of stereotype hurts actual people.  And the 'reasoning' behind it is fallacious.


May I remind you that this is not about current conditions in the United States one way or the other; we were exploring the scenario in pre-1933 Germany. Moreover I never said there were no non-affluent Jews.  I merely pointed out their large representation in well-paying jobs in pre-1933 Germany and submitted that you might think jealousy to have been a factor in German people's resentment.  


Anyone can see that this was what I said to you, merely by going back and checking the posts; and the several people following this conversation know it as well.


I ask that you please stay on track and not try to make this personal.  


 


>>>I'd like you to research your nonsense about Askenazim:  my Sephardi relatives would feel very offended, lol!  And so would the Goyische side of the family.... 


Exactly what is supposed to be my "nonsense about Ashkenazi Jews" ?  I told you of findings about a slightly higher IQ and about genetic propensity for certain diseases.  What has that got to do with your Sephardic relatives ?  


 


 >>>If Jews -Askenazi, Sephardi, Mizrachi - are 'more intelligent' than most ethnic groups, it's likely due to the stresses and strictures placed upon us by being perennial 'outsiders' in both Christian and Muslim societies.   


 


As I clearly wrote, it is only Ashkenazi Jews, not the other two groups.


 


>>>>  judaism.about.com/od/health/a/geneticdis...  Here's a link ot the topic.  I'm sadly familiar wth Tay-Sachs. Interesting about Crohn's - my roommate in the hospital had Crohn's and she was Polish/Irish.  (when you're bedridden and can only eat ice chips, it's kind of a 'bonding' experience...)


I have worked in the medical field in a certain capacity; I know about the genetic predispositions for those other diseases.  But the one I was discussing, Bloom Syndrome, is a disorder exclusive to Ashkenazi Jews.  I was mentioning that in conjunction with the point that Ashkenazi Jews constitute an ethnic group.


 


>>>Perhaps you aren't aware of the influence of Col. Lindberg, exerted on behalf of the Nazis?  Or the speeches of Fr. Coughlin?  Or the deliberate action widely prvalent among the US State Dep't personnel to  obstruct and delay the exit of US- citizen-related Jewish refugees from Hitler's clutches....


No I wasn't aware of them or maybe I forgot ...but if these were non-Nazis advocating for the Third Reich or the Third Reich's goals, what point are you making with this ?   I thought your interest was in showing that America had an ongoing hostility to Germany.


Leah, I have a business trip coming up; I don't know whether I will have time to continue this during the trip.   If not, let's just wrap it and store it for later, okay ?  And in such a case, have a great week.


P.



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