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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 2:07AM #21
rabello
Posts: 22,031

Almost everyone in America will benefit.  There's no reason to believe that individual premiuns are going to increase in price, and if they do, subscribers can choose a different, private plan.   But more than that, once this policy is put in place, people who become ill with a serious, possibly deadly illness, or who suffer a catastrophic injury won't be suddenly get cut off by their carrier, they won't be then burdened by their "preexisting condition," and their kids won't be going to school with untreated communicable illnesses that can be spread to the already-insured's children.    Everyone thinks their insurance is "good" till they're the ones that get cut off and have to go without, come what may for  them and their families.  

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 2:12AM #22
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

"Yes, we can win the battle and lose the war..."



Many of the Democrats who voted "Yes" did so NOT because they believed in it -- they voted because they were threatened or bribed or both by Obama/Pelosi/Reid.


They're hoping that this will all blow over by November, but the fact of the matter is that the MAJORITY of voters were AGAINST this bill passing -- and there WILL be an accounting on Election Day...

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 4:51AM #23
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Mar 22, 2010 -- 2:12AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Many of the Democrats who voted "Yes" did so NOT because they believed in it -- they voted because they were threatened or bribed or both by Obama/Pelosi/Reid. They're hoping that this will all blow over by November ... there WILL be an accounting on Election Day...



What you say sounds unreal.


How can Obama/Reid/Pelosi bribe someone into losing his/her seat in the midterm elections?


How many side payments, would you think, does it require to convince a politician to give up power?

tl;dr
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 6:44AM #24
JohnQ
Posts: 5,676

Mar 22, 2010 -- 2:12AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Many of the Democrats who voted "Yes" did so NOT because they believed in it -- they voted because they were threatened or bribed or both by Obama/Pelosi/Reid. They're hoping that this will all blow over by November ... there WILL be an accounting on Election Day...




Okay, so you think that "Many of the Democrats who voted 'Yes'" did so because the were threatened and bribed.  Hmmm, 100% of Republicans voted "No".   Do you think any of them threatened or bribed (or, both)?




Peace!                 
------

Christian LIES wed Christian HATE......Begot a child....it’s named Prop 8! 

Supreme Court let it stand.....which means we can vote away the rights of others in our land.

Sad as that may be...it hurts all of us.....not just me.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 10:46AM #25
Druac
Posts: 12,231

The Democrats did what anyone in their position would have done, particularly the Republicans, who have done it many times before for what they were fighting for.


They did it by the book and they had a mandate to get it done.


With the leadership of Obama, it got done.


Again, thank you Mr. President.

Jesus Is My Savior...He Saves Me From REALITY!
---------------------------------------------
We created god in our own image and likeness!
[George Carlin]
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"Reason & Logic" - A Damn Good Slogan!
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, an American physicist
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 11:12AM #26
drawout
Posts: 5,910

Mar 22, 2010 -- 1:31AM, Erey wrote:


Mar 22, 2010 -- 1:17AM, Druac wrote:


Mar 22, 2010 -- 1:03AM, Erey wrote:


YES WE CAN!!!


 


Just when you thought Health Care could not get anymore expensive for the middle class.  Just when you thought the large annual rise in health care expenses could not go up anymore.  The Dems said ----- YES IT CAN!!!


 


WOOHOOO  I get to look forward to paying more at least on the low side 15% more for health care - Yes you DID !


What do I get for this additional money - not shit!!!


 


Reading both Forbes and MSN for my analysis I learened that the uninsured are the big winners (good for them)


Also the Health INsurance companies (Tomorrow look at the HUGE skyrocking stock prices for Aetna, Cigna, etc. - it should be SPECTACULAR!!!!!).  The pharma companies - Woot, Woot Obama and Pelosi have been GOOD TO THEM!  ONly green arrows next to their stock tickers tomorrow. 


 


LOSERS:  Doctors, doctors LOSE under this plan.  Sorry docs but the dems hate you.  They love the Pharma and the Insurance but your sucky little AMA organization did not fork over the big bucks like you needed it to in campaign contributions.


The people who have insurance - yes your hard to afford health care has just gotten much more expensive.  Sorry people.  Be prepared for higher insurance premiums and to pay more for each medical procedure.  Open up that wallet or if you don't have any cash left after paying  your rapidly increasing monthly insurance fee then I guess you will just have to put it on the old credit card.  But you no longer have the option to not pay.  You will pay or the IRS will put a lein on your home.  The Dems are in it for the very wealthy (who can afford to be dems) or the poor. If you are middle class you are screwed.  Sorry but that is HOPE AND CHANGE for ya!




 


Nice rant...but do you have anything other than loud rhetorical talking points to contribute to it, because all I see is the parroting of the misconceptions and misdirection of those who dictate the talking points to those you apparently listen to, coming from those that just lost the argument.


There are many things good about this package and the more people learn about the reality of it, I think the more people are going to realize that ranting about opinion and conjecture, rather than reality and details of the actual measures, the more they are going to see they might actually like what was put into motion tonight.


I would hope the right would learn after this defeat that scare tactics and misconception is not the way to win the trust of America. They are in danger of becoming the proverbial boy who cried wolf.




Honey I would so love for this to be a rant.  Before I came here I read the analysis on BOTH MSN and FORBES.   Sorry


MORE EXPENSIVE -MUCH more for the middle class according to both sites.


 


Good news for Pharma and Health Insurance companies - According to both sites. 


Great news for the uninsured. 


 


I guess I was stupid to hope that my family and I might benefit from any kind of dem legislation.  Already we pay out the nose for health insurance (whichwill only be going up) and now each service will be more expensive too! 


Tell me again how I desrerve the increased expense because we have been living high on the hog making more than 88K per year as a family.  Do you have any idea how expensive it is to have a family of 4?  Well I do and it just got alot more expensive.




I hate this tactic of conveniently forgetting the undeniable certainty that the costs were going to continue to skyrocket if we did nothing. The Republicans never had a plan to stop the rising costs that were absolutely certain to come if nothing was done to stop it.

'When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.' - Mark Twain
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 11:15AM #27
rabello
Posts: 22,031

Per Matt Yglesias:


...in more sober moments in the weeks and months to come, my guess is that the brighter minds on the right will recognize that their determination to turn health care reform into Obama’s Waterloo sowed the seeds of their own destruction.


Universal health care has been attempted many times in the past and always failed. The prospects for success were never all that bright. Many of us, myself included, at one point or another wanted to try something more moderate.


But the right wing, by invariably indicating that it would settle for nothing less than total victory, inspired progressive forces to march on and win their greatest legislative victory in decades.


We should also, however, spare a thought for the unsung hero of comprehensive reform, McConnell and his GOP colleagues, who pushed their “no compromise” strategy to the breaking point and beyond. The theory was that non-cooperation would stress the Democratic coalition and cause the public to begin to question the enterprise. And it largely worked.


But it always suffered from a fatal flaw—the Republicans’ attitude made it seem that a smaller bill was no more feasible than a big bill.


How The GOP Made it Happen


Now...it's on to correcting the misinformation and fearmongering the Republicans smugly used to defeat health care for all Americans, and to see the president they want fail, actually fail, so that the public can begin to understand what the bill will actually do, and what it won't do.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 12:23PM #28
religionfree
Posts: 5,117

I normally don't adhere to what Noam Chomsky states, but I do have to agree with him in this interview with 'raw story'.


I imagine that most of those who voted for this bill held their collective noses while marking their X.  I mostly agree with Dennis Kucinich who, until very recently, would have voted against this corporate give-away. 


However, I also believe that this is the first step and possibly the most important step, toward a firm health care public option.


 



Chomsky: Health bill sustains the system's core ills


In an interview with Raw Story, world-renowned scholar and political critic Noam Chomsky reluctantly called the bill a mildly positive step, but cautioned that it wouldn’t fix the fundamental problems with the nation's troubled system.


"If it fails, it wouldn’t put even limited constraints on insurance companies," he explained, noting that the bill is "at least has some steps towards barring the withholding of policies from people with prior disabilities." The consumer protections from dodgy insurance practices are among the bill's most popular components.


The Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor added that it’s a damning referendum on American democracy that one of the most highly supported components of the effort nationally, the public insurance option, was jettisoned. He partly blamed the media for refusing to stress how favorably it’s viewed by the populace.


"It didn't have 'political support,' just the support of the majority of the population," Chomsky quipped, "which apparently is not political support in our dysfunctional democracy."


rawstory.com/2010/03/noam-chomsky-health...


"When I don't know who I Am, I follow You
When I know who I am, You & I are One"

Namaste
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 12:32PM #29
Armwar
Posts: 12,019

 



United Soviet States of America...coming soon to a neighborhood near you.  IRS=KGB


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5 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2010 - 12:34PM #30
Druac
Posts: 12,231

Mar 22, 2010 -- 12:32PM, Armwar wrote:


 



United Soviet States of America...coming soon to a neighborhood near you.  IRS=KGB





Thank you for continuing to help our cause. It is very much appreciated. Hopefully the rest of the Anti-Obamites will follow suit. It is exactly this kind of drivel we need from the right to hammer home what they are really all about and what they really have to offer the American people.

Jesus Is My Savior...He Saves Me From REALITY!
---------------------------------------------
We created god in our own image and likeness!
[George Carlin]
---------------------------------------------
"Reason & Logic" - A Damn Good Slogan!
---------------------------------------------
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, an American physicist
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