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Switch to Forum Live View Is The First Amendment for Monotheists Only?
8 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2010 - 10:41AM #21
Posts: 3,681

Based on what reasoning?

Margaret Mead: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
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8 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2010 - 11:52AM #22
Posts: 18,418

Feb 2, 2010 -- 10:35AM, theinterpreter wrote:

May God bless WallBuilders and the National Legal Foundation. I agree that Christianity is the only religion that should be protected under the Constitution.

Usually people have the good sense to not be proud of their treason - but then the position taken above doesn't really show good sense.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2010 - 11:53AM #23
Posts: 18,418

Feb 2, 2010 -- 10:41AM, sydneymoon wrote:

Based on what reasoning?

Ah, Syd - did you really think there was any 'reasoning' behind that?

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2010 - 12:05PM #24
Posts: 44,029

Feb 2, 2010 -- 7:41AM, rangerken wrote:

Take a look at the website,

This is the website of the organization Merope refers to. It is obviously, and openly an organization that wants Christianity's importance and influence on American history to be taught and celebrated. this, in and of itself, in my opinion is NOT a problem. The influence of Christianity, particularly Protestant Christianity in the founding of the US and its constitution is a matter of historic fact.

It is a matter of revisionist history "fact." 

....And again... way to go US Air Force!

Yet the Air Force, especially at the academy, has a problem with christian extremists forcing others to go along by threatening with bad reports, no promotions, poor duty assignments, and so on. The academy may have been forced by some outside pressure to allow Wiccans to do their thing. I have no doubt that there will be repercussions for those that do.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.   Isaac Asimov
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8 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2010 - 12:37PM #25
Posts: 17,597

Witches, Druids and pagans rejoice! The Air Force Academy in Colorado is about to recognize its first Wiccan prayer circle, a Stonehenge on the Rockies that will serve as an outdoor place of worship for the academy's neo-pagans.

Since the US Air Force is recognizing Wiccan as a religion, why wouldn't the courts agree? 

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove

People change for two main reasons: either their minds have been opened or their hearts have been broken.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2010 - 1:07PM #26
Posts: 21,847

Feb 2, 2010 -- 10:35AM, theinterpreter wrote:

May God bless WallBuilders and the National Legal Foundation. I agree that Christianity is the only religion that should be protected under the Constitution.

Luckily, the law doesn't operate on the basis of your "agreement", prejudices, or whims.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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8 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2010 - 1:39PM #27
Posts: 21,796

Feb 1, 2010 -- 10:17PM, Stardove wrote:

Feb 1, 2010 -- 7:18PM, rangerken wrote:

Regarding Wicca as a religion, here's what the US Air Force says!,2933,584500,00.h...

Go Air Force!


PS. and remember, I'm a Christian!

Good for the Air Force! 

IME most Pagans care for our Mother Earth more than other religious groups.  Pagans understand our planet is a living being upon which we live. 

I pray we do not kill her off, cause then we are all goners.

Thank you RangerKen, and Star,

And I am very the airforce has taken the correct position.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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8 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2010 - 8:55PM #28
Posts: 14,591

This thread was moved from the Hot Topics Zone.

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8 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2010 - 12:08PM #29
Posts: 10,308

Feb 2, 2010 -- 10:35AM, theinterpreter wrote:

May God bless WallBuilders and the National Legal Foundation. I agree that Christianity is the only religion that should be protected under the Constitution.

Let's take a brief look at WallBuilders. It is the organization founded by David Barton, a person who has made a career making up quotes and attributing them to our Founding Fathers. In his book, The Myth Of Separation, Barton allegedly "quoted" James Madison saying:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind of self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

According to the curators of the Madison Papers at the University of Virginia, this quote does not appear anywhere in the writings of Madison, and is completely contrary to his views. However, Madison did say

"Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together"-- James Madison (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

"What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not." -- James Madison: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, 1785

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State" ... James Madison (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

The Texas Monthly noted in their September 2006 issue that Barton has denied saying that in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptists "Jefferson referred to the wall of separation between church and state as 'one-directional'—that is, it was meant to restrain government from infringing on the church's domain but not the other way around. There is no such language in the letter." The article goes on to note that this denial is contradicted by a 1990 version of Barton's video America's Godly Heritage in which Barton states:

On January 1, 1802, Jefferson wrote to that group of Danbury Baptists, and in this letter, he assured them—he said the First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between church and state, he said, but that wall is a one-directional wall. It keeps the government from running the church, but it makes sure that Christian principles will always stay in government.

Barton obviously does not believe that the 9th Commandment applies to him as lying seems to be second nature to him.

Oh, and one more thing, Barton has twice given speeches at events sponsored by Peter J. Peters, a racist Christian Identity pastor

Peters and his church first came to national attention in 1985 when Colorado newspapers reported that several members of The Order, the most violent far-right terrorist group of the 1980s, had attended the LaPorte Church of Christ during their criminal heyday. Subsequent investigation into The Order's activities revealed a string of firebombings, armed robberies, counterfeiting and the execution of one of their own members suspected of disloyalty. In 1987 two members of The Order were convicted and sentenced to prison terms of 150 years in connection with the murder in June 1984 of Alan Berg, a Jewish talk-show host in Denver. Several months earlier, in February 1984, Peters, along with Jack Mohr, appeared on Berg's program and Berg angrily confronted the two men about their white supremacist views.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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