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Switch to Forum Live View What Saved the Pilgrims?
8 years ago  ::  Dec 01, 2009 - 10:48PM #61
Jstanl
Posts: 5,485

Miles;


I guess I kind of understand your point.  I was raised to believe that I am an American.  It was that simple.  Then, in the sixties and seventies we started identifying the hyphanated Americans.  Everybody had to be from somewhere else.  If you weren't, then you simply didn't have a heritage.  You were nobody.  Suddenly only those whose ancestors came to this country during the 19th century were true Americans.  Those of us whose ancestors came so long ago that we had no memory of it, weren't even sure where they came from, well, somehow we really didn't exist.


So I started trying to reconstruct my ancestry.  In part because of my family name and in part because my father and uncle believed it, I assumed that I am descended from the English.  So I started studying English history.  In the process I stumbled on the Celtic peoples.  (The Celts had a lot in common with Native Americans except that the Celts were advanced iron workers and had cattle and horses.  But they were a tribal people.)


Over time I began to realize, and then began finding real evidence, that we were really descended from the Celts of the British Isles and Ireland.  Actually, my ancestors were either displaced or overrun by the English.  After the Romans got through beating the s--t out of us.  Like you I want no sympathy or apologies and I don't expect any.  History is what it is and it is not my place to judge my ancestors, or anyone else's.


One of the things I learned is the migration stories of the Brits and Europeans.  I don't know any Europeans who are not aware that their ancestors migrated across Asia Minor and Europe to get to wherever they finally last settled.  The history of humanity is migration.  Except maybe for the people of modern day Kenya and Tanzania.

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8 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2009 - 12:25PM #62
Tolerant Sis
Posts: 4,201

I don't think that Americans are under any illusions that they 'originated' here.  Well before the 'hyphenated' thingie, we glorified the Pilgrims and the early settlers, we made quite a fuss over the Revolutionary War for independence, and so on.  


There is nothing wrong with people being aware of their heritage; not at all.  If that trend makes us less of a melting pot than a 'salad bowl', well, I prefer salad to soup anyway.

First amendment fan since 1793.
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2009 - 12:33PM #63
Captainmarvel
Posts: 765

Its Not the soup or the salad thats the problem.....its the croutons.

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8 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2009 - 3:01PM #64
Christianlib
Posts: 21,847

What saved the Pilgrims?


 


Well, if we believe the myth, then it was ole John Smith gettin' him some Iroquois nookie offa Pocahontas that did it.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2009 - 3:03PM #65
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,955
Wrong myth, CL.  You are thinking about the JAMESTOWN Colony and not the PLYMOUTH Colony.
"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2009 - 3:12PM #66
Christianlib
Posts: 21,847

Aw, mark, don't let true history get in the way of a snarky joke.


Sorta like GWB never seemed to let facts intrude on his policies.Surprised


 

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2009 - 12:02AM #67
Jstanl
Posts: 5,485

Dec 2, 2009 -- 3:12PM, Christianlib wrote:


Aw, mark, don't let true history get in the way of a snarky joke.


Sorta like GWB never seemed to let facts intrude on his policies.

 




Welllllllll ......  If you don't know Jamestown from Plymouth, how do you know that GWB didn't know what he was talking about?  Wink


 


I mean ... theres a cartoon movie out about Pochahontas and John Smith and how she saved Jamestown.  Every three year old has seen it twenty times.  Smile

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8 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2009 - 12:11AM #68
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,955

Disney made an animated musical about Pocahontas with Mel Gibson as the voice of John Smith



Disney/Touchtone did a live action movie entitled Squanto - A Warrior's Tale,  starring Adam Beach as Squanto.



 


Again, I'd say most three year olds would be commenting about the historical faux pas.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2009 - 7:19AM #69
Christianlib
Posts: 21,847

Dec 3, 2009 -- 12:02AM, Jstanl wrote:


Dec 2, 2009 -- 3:12PM, Christianlib wrote:


Aw, mark, don't let true history get in the way of a snarky joke.


Sorta like GWB never seemed to let facts intrude on his policies.


 




Welllllllll ......  If you don't know Jamestown from Plymouth, how do you know that GWB didn't know what he was talking about? 

 


I mean ... theres a cartoon movie out about Pochahontas and John Smith and how she saved Jamestown.  Every three year old has seen it twenty times. 



 


How do I know GWB didn't know what he was talking about!!!???????


I know because I read and listen to something other than Rush and Faux.


AND, I lived through The Cowboy Who Was Afraid of Horses in both his position as Texas Gov., and his "presidency."

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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8 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2009 - 11:03AM #70
Jstanl
Posts: 5,485

Dec 3, 2009 -- 7:19AM, Christianlib wrote:


Dec 3, 2009 -- 12:02AM, Jstanl wrote:


Dec 2, 2009 -- 3:12PM, Christianlib wrote:


Aw, mark, don't let true history get in the way of a snarky joke.


Sorta like GWB never seemed to let facts intrude on his policies.


 




Welllllllll ......  If you don't know Jamestown from Plymouth, how do you know that GWB didn't know what he was talking about? 


 


I mean ... theres a cartoon movie out about Pochahontas and John Smith and how she saved Jamestown.  Every three year old has seen it twenty times. 




 


How do I know GWB didn't know what he was talking about!!!???????


I know because I read and listen to something other than Rush and Faux.


AND, I lived through The Cowboy Who Was Afraid of Horses in both his position as Texas Gov., and his "presidency."




Just because a person is around when something is happening doesn't mean that the person understands what is going on.


But I understand snarky jokes.  David Letterman, among others, specializes in them.

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