The KSM case is an example of Eric Holder following the Law of the land as established by the Constitution. Article III Sec2 “The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed” The 911 attacks were in the state of New York so the trials should be in New York. “The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment” Impeachment is the only exception, terrorism is to by y trial by jury. I we let precedent be set and with the current desire to make everything terrorism , then Joe Public with be charged with terrorist activity He might not have committed but because it was labeled terror he would be deprived of trial by jury.
The Lindsey Graham question was just politics and grandstanding(grahmstanding, to borrow aTexas phrase) .. If OBL is captured by the Military on battlefield, and survives a battle ,he will be detained and turned over to the appropriate agency. A battlefield capture does not have to be mirandaerized until turned over to civilian authorities and arrested. If he is captured by Pakistan forces he maybe tried in Islamabad or the Hague, or in the US.
The constitution applies to anyone on American soil. The CIA and the former administration confirmed this my keeping detainees outside the US. The constitutional basis is the XIV amendment
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any Statedeprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
“I[seldom]make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
Andy McCarthy: "And the circus will be played out for all to see — in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America’s defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts."
The American judicial system has more decorum than that. Interesting how little faith Americans have in their judicial system, which strives, as much as possible, to leave political partisan politics outside the courtroom's door.
Understanding the reason for the Civillian Judical system choice, over that of a Military Tribunal, of which, was ratified in order to hold the trial of Khalid Mohammed due to stated differences of 'Administration' and complications from the past. Clearly, this case is summarized by differences of political opinion, violation of International Law and an establishment of a different course in the War on Terror on the international stage.
Andy McCarthy: "And the circus will be played out for all to see — in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America’s defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts."
The American judicial system has more decorum than that. Interesting how little faith Americans have in their judicial system, which strives, as much as possible, to leave political partisan politics outside the courtroom's door.
It will be even messier. These prisoners have been systematically denied their right to a speedy trial, they have been repeatedly and sadistically tortured. The denials of these basic human rights will make a mockery of any subsequent proceedings. Will testimony elicited under torture be allowed in a US court? What precedents will be set to allow/condone such behavior in the future if the trials are not immediately settled due to the US gov't./military abuse of the prisoners?
Andy McCarthy: "And the circus will be played out for all to see — in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America’s defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts."
Good morning! Removed an exchange between a couple beloved members of our dysfunctional USNP family because they were insulting to each other, or referenced a ROC busting post. Now kiss and make up!
--- agnosticspirit - Bnet Community co-host USNP
Tribalism, ethnocentricism, racism, nationalism, and FEAR is the Mind Killer... >:(
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Yeah, but I'm against the taking of innocent human life first and foremost. Multiply that by 3000 and we can start talking.
So then, how do you justify shocking and aweing the Iraqi people for something somebody else did to us, or bombing wedding parties and funeral gatherings in Afghanistan, or bombing civilian targets in Pakistan by unmanned drones? Kill rato has to be 1000 to 1 by now. Than we can start talking
For me, I'm against an eye for an eye, much less for 1,000 eyes for 1 eye
You google it. You made the inaccurate accusation.
I bet you find it was well into his second term.
Here ya go (google is our friend):
* Oct 2001, Afghanistan invasion begins
* March 13, 2002, Bush's press conference, when asked "don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?":
I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.
I thought the discussion was obama's promise to KILL bin laden, then the expiration date ran out on that statement and he changed his mind in less than a year.
No, that's your discussion and interpretation of headlines you read, here and there. The discussion is actually about the stellar analysis provided in the opening post.
I am not so terribly sure KSM deserves to be equated with a human being. In order to save 3000 American lives I would allow much more than a water board. I know you would rather I let you die, but I wouldnt.
Don't do me any such favors, thanks
Human beings are human beings. But I'm against cruelty to animals too. How about you?
Yeah, but I'm against the taking of innocent human life first and foremost. Multiply that by 3000 and we can start talking.
Dead or Alive came about quickly after 911. After several years of assessment, Bush realized that the war on terror was better fought without such concentration on a single entity, and terrorism world wide decreased substantually post 911
It wasn't after "several years of assessment" Google it if you don't believe me.
You google it. You made the inaccurate accusation.
obama, with the benefit of observing Bush for 7 years, determined we'll kill bin laden coming approx a year ago, then reneged on it less than a year ago.
Now I've heard everything. Most people, including Obama, after "observing Bush for 7 years" were appalled at what America did under Bush. That's why the Republicans lost the Congress in 2006 and the WH in 2008 and will lose again in 2012. At least there's a good chance we'll be safe from the horrid shocks to the conscience, 2001-1009, till then.
I thought the discussion was obama's promise to KILL bin laden, then the expiration date ran out on that statement and he changed his mind in less than a year.
You've already lost power. You just dont realize it yet.
Any man can count the seeds in an apple.... .......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
I am not so terribly sure KSM deserves to be equated with a human being. In order to save 3000 American lives I would allow much more than a water board. I know you would rather I let you die, but I wouldnt.
Don't do me any such favors, thanks
Human beings are human beings. But I'm against cruelty to animals too. How about you?
Dead or Alive came about quickly after 911. After several years of assessment, Bush realized that the war on terror was better fought without such concentration on a single entity, and terrorism world wide decreased substantually post 911
It wasn't after "several years of assessment" Google it if you don't believe me.
obama, with the benefit of observing Bush for 7 years, determined we'll kill bin laden coming approx a year ago, then reneged on it less than a year ago.
Now I've heard everything. Most people, including Obama, after "observing Bush for 7 years" were appalled at what America did under Bush. That's why the Republicans lost the Congress in 2006 and the WH in 2008 and will lose again in 2012. At least there's a good chance we'll be safe from the horrid shocks to the conscience, 2001-2009, till then.
The last four or five years of the Bush adminstration we were waterboarding the *&^* out of them, pumping them for information that has kept your state from being bombed again.
"pumping" a human being for "information"
Can you hear yourself?
But, to correct yet another misstatement of fact, no one really knows what the Bush administration was doing to its ghost detainees, not for the last four or five years of the Bush administration, but since early 2002, which would make it 6 years of brutal lawlessness. We do know that the ghost detainees have been "outed" since autumn 2006, meaning they've been imprisoned for more than 7 years, and have been sitting in Bush's Limbo for more than 3 years. No wonder they might want execution. And some people think it's all about virgins. Sheesh.
What we do know is that one such detainee was psychologically executed 183 times in a one month period, and any information he may have divulged under such circumstances may or may not have had any significance whatsoever. We also know that the other ghost detainee who was psychologically executed at least 83 times in one or two weeks period had given up KSM BEFORE any such mock executions, which are clearly banned and illegal by all civilized people.
So, it's a fallacy to claim "pumping" a human being for "information" prevented a terrorist attack on NYC, or any other place in America.
Ok so what is it, KILL BIN LADEN or weaken him........?
Bush my not have been my ideal conservative president....
But he didnt have such a flip flop problem either.
ha ha. It is somewhat amusing to see how much Bush supporters bend the truth or dismiss the truth in their efforts to paint Obama as a hypocrite or a sissy.
He said "we'll kill bin Laden" in a debate.
George Bush said "dead or alive" as THE president. Later he said, still as THE president: "um, I don't know where bin Laden is. I don't think about him much. He's not important" (not a direct quote)
I am not so terribly sure KSM deserves to be equated with a human being. In order to save 3000 American lives I would allow much more than a water board. I know you would rather I let you die, but I wouldnt.
Dead or Alive came about quickly after 911. After several years of assessment, Bush realized that the war on terror was better fought without such concentration on a single entity, and terrorism world wide decreased substantually post 911
obama, with the benefit of observing Bush for 7 years, determined we'll kill bin laden coming approx a year ago, then reneged on it less than a year ago.
Any man can count the seeds in an apple.... .......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
A civil trial in New York State is the way to go.
