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Switch to Forum Live View Creation in schools.
8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 1:02AM #1
Vistronic
Posts: 1,838

Creation by God should be taught as one explanation for the origin of life and the universe in public schools.


This is a logical position. Just because God is mentioned does not mean it qualifies for the separation of church and state. 


Order and design point to a creator. This conclusion can be reached outside a religious frame work.


This is a case of church and state gone haywire.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 1:25AM #2
Eve510
Posts: 19

Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:22AM, Eve510 wrote:


"This is a logical position. Just because God is mentioned does not mean it qualifies for the separation of church and state."


I might be a little rusty, but where is God mentioned in the school system???  As of my Knowledge, it is an infringement against the Freedom of Religion to mention "GOD" or religion(s) in the school system, unless you are talking about private schooling?  Then you have the right to a specific religion! 


As for the origin of creation, I as a science teacher do not cover theology, for it is not part of the curriculum.  Although asked or tweaked by students, I will not get into a science vs. religion argument.  I have my ideals and beliefs, but I am getting payed to follow what is in the textbook, curriculum, or district handbook.


Freedom of religion, such a quaint law.  I can't even express mine when I want too, for fear of getting sued for invading their religious rights.  We are still in the same position, except my lawyer has a bigger bank role.


 



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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 1:46AM #3
Vistronic
Posts: 1,838

Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:25AM, Eve510 wrote:


Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:22AM, Eve510 wrote:


"This is a logical position. Just because God is mentioned does not mean it qualifies for the separation of church and state."


I might be a little rusty, but where is God mentioned in the school system???  As of my Knowledge, it is an infringement against the Freedom of Religion to mention "GOD" or religion(s) in the school system, unless you are talking about private schooling?  Then you have the right to a specific religion! 


As for the origin of creation, I as a science teacher do not cover theology, for it is not part of the curriculum.  Although asked or tweaked by students, I will not get into a science vs. religion argument.  I have my ideals and beliefs, but I am getting payed to follow what is in the textbook, curriculum, or district handbook.


Freedom of religion, such a quaint law.  I can't even express mine when I want too, for fear of getting sued for invading their religious rights.  We are still in the same position, except my lawyer has a bigger bank role.


 






As a science teacher I would hope the school board would give you enough freedom to present all the options. Like I say just mentioning God in this context, is not what I call separation of church and state. Creation should be added to the text book.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 1:51AM #4
Eve510
Posts: 19

Oh buddy, I don't know where your from, but in my district they even stopped doing the allegiance to the flag because it mentions GOD.  Its a Miracle they haven't stopped using the dollar!  I don't think that is going to happen, for our taxes went up even higher.  One tax for the state and one for the district.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 10:43AM #5
amcolph
Posts: 20,246

Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:02AM, Vistronic wrote:


Creation by God should be taught as one explanation for the origin of life and the universe in public schools.


This is a logical position. Just because God is mentioned does not mean it qualifies for the separation of church and state. 


Order and design point to a creator. This conclusion can be reached outside a religious frame work.


This is a case of church and state gone haywire.




 


No.  Science class is about "how."  The question of whether there is a supreme being behind it shouldn't even come up.


 


What you are reaching for is a scenario where students are taught "science says this is how it happened" OR "God did it" as if they were two mutually exclusive explanations.


This is only true for those sects whose "how" contradicts science's "how."


What students should be taught is "some people think a god or gods created the universe and some don't.  In either case, this is how science thinks it happened."


 



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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 1:57PM #6
dblad
Posts: 1,881

Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:02AM, Vistronic wrote:


Creation by God should be taught as one explanation for the origin of life and the universe in public schools.


This is a logical position. Just because God is mentioned does not mean it qualifies for the separation of church and state. 


Order and design point to a creator. This conclusion can be reached outside a religious frame work.


This is a case of church and state gone haywire.




Creation should be taught at HOME and in CHURCH and/or in private schools.


Public schools should NOT and DO NOT teach creation.


Simple, if you don't like it, remove your child(ren) from public school and home teach or send them to private schools. That's how it is done in the USA.


If you continue to insist that God/Allah/Other be taught in public schools, be prepared for all religious views, Christian and otherwise to be taught.


 


 


 


 

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 2:17PM #7
TPaine
Posts: 10,308

Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:02AM, Vistronic wrote:


Creation by God should be taught as one explanation for the origin of life and the universe in public schools.


This is a logical position. Just because God is mentioned does not mean it qualifies for the separation of church and state. 


Order and design point to a creator. This conclusion can be reached outside a religious frame work.


This is a case of church and state gone haywire.



Are you suggesting that the public school students be taught that it is possible that an intelligent power, much like the deistic First Cause, had something to do with the beginning of the universe or are you suggesting that students be taught the Judeo-Christian creation myth? The former may possibly be constitutional given that God, or Providence, is mentioned on the Great Seal of the United States and on our money. However, teaching the cosmogonic myth of any particular faith system would violate the Establishment Clause.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 2:56PM #8
Summer813
Posts: 325

Actually, teaching the creation myths of various cultures and religions is a perfectly legitimate thing to do in public schools, provided that it covers more than one, does not single out any of them as being either "true" or "false" and is done in a social studies class or a class on comparative religions. It does not, however, belong in a science class.


I attended public schools from K-12th in the USA, and my 9th grade history class was all about non-Western culture studies. We studied the cultures, religions and histories of the Middle East, Africa and Asia from ancient times to the present day, which meant that we also learned about the various stories each of these cultures had regarding how the world began. It was fascinating. Additionally, my 7th grade social studies class had done a unit on Native American cultures and this included the creation myths that are part of their religions as well. Again, fascinating stuff, and totally appropriate for kids of that age to be taught, as it gives a well-rounded picture of the shape of human thought about the world those humans live in.


In science classes, however, we stuck to purely scientific topics, which is as it should be. Science deals with the measurable and quantifiable, not with matters of faith.

Shared pain is lessened, shared joy increased. Thus do we refute entropy. - Mike Callahan, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon
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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 7:55PM #9
Vistronic
Posts: 1,838

Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:51AM, Eve510 wrote:


Oh buddy, I don't know where your from, but in my district they even stopped doing the allegiance to the flag because it mentions GOD.  Its a Miracle they haven't stopped using the dollar!  I don't think that is going to happen, for our taxes went up even higher.  One tax for the state and one for the district.




Things have become quite pathetic, PC gone mad.

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8 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2009 - 8:49PM #10
amcolph
Posts: 20,246

Nov 13, 2009 -- 7:55PM, Vistronic wrote:


Nov 13, 2009 -- 1:51AM, Eve510 wrote:


Oh buddy, I don't know where your from, but in my district they even stopped doing the allegiance to the flag because it mentions GOD.  Its a Miracle they haven't stopped using the dollar!  I don't think that is going to happen, for our taxes went up even higher.  One tax for the state and one for the district.




Things have become quite pathetic, PC gone mad.




Not 'political correctness' so much as fear of giving the religious extremists an edge.


As a Christian I would have to say that it is better to do without any mention or acknowledgement of God at all by our public institutions than risk letting the "Bible-believers' make any advantage of it. 

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