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5 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2009 - 8:01PM #31
dblad
Posts: 1,703

Vistronic


I thought you used the KJV...


 


The Tenth Commandment


Exodus 20:17 (King James Version)


  17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


 


His manservant (male slave) nor his maidservant (female slave) 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2009 - 8:22PM #32
dblad
Posts: 1,703

Vistronic...


Depending upon how Ten Commandments are interpreted, the Exodus 20 version contain a total of 19 to 25 separate instructions. These have been traditionally sorted into ten groups. Unfortunately, various faith groups sort them differently. This makes inter-faith dialog very difficult at times, and can cause conflicts over which version of the Decalogue is to be displayed.


This is a red herring the message is not changed.


We are talking about the 10 commandments... this is not a red herring. Poor defense on your part.


 


The prohibition against "any graven image, or any likeness of any thing...," if interpreted literally, would seem to forbid a wide range of objects, including a statue in a church, a cross, a crucifix, or even to a photograph of a person. However, many denominations do not interpret this passage in isolation or do not interpret it literally. This allows Eastern Orthodox churches to display icons, Roman Catholic churches to contains statues,  and many Protestant churches to contain drawings and/or photographs.


 


Take it in context like I said above. Again this does not change the message it is about IDOLS IMHO.


Again, we are talking about the 10 commandments... either you take them at face value or you don't. You cannot pick and choose what part you want to enforce and what part you wish to condone.


Reserving the Sabbath (Saturday) as a day of rest. The vast majority of churches have their main services on Sunday. Only Sabbaterian denominations, like the Seventh Day Adventists and Seventh Day Baptists, follow celebrate on Saturday.


Regardless f the day it is an important concept to bad walmart dropped it.


See above... you can't change the meaning of words to suit your own belief system... Sabbath means the last day of the week.. Saturday


The first commandment requires that no god other than Yahweh is to be worshipped. This is in open conflict with the "first freedom" in the U.S.  -- religious freedom.


Well if it true its true.


Not sure what you mean here... do you advocate religions that do not worship Yahweh, be expelled? Compelled? What?


The second commandment, interpreted literally, punishes a man's children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren and perhaps even great-great grandchildren if the man has sinned by serving other Gods.


Why would someone what to serve false gods?


Maybe some of your family in past generations served other (not false) gods...


The fifth commandment requires that children honor their parents. Many would feel that it is unreasonable to expect a child to honor a parent who was a sexual molester, a physical abuser or was guilty of neglect. Drug dealers and prostitutes also have children.


That is taken over board and I think most know that.


Like you said earlier, "Well if it is true its true." or is this another commandment you want to twist to your own liking?


 

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2009 - 8:27PM #33
Confusedman
Posts: 102

Sep 21, 2009 -- 1:26PM, Vistronic wrote:


PS-Lets get morality and the Bible back in the class room where it belongs.




How about the Quran and the Vedas as well?  Oh, and maybe some scientology literature.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2009 - 8:36PM #34
Summer813
Posts: 325

Sep 21, 2009 -- 8:27PM, Confusedman wrote:


Sep 21, 2009 -- 1:26PM, Vistronic wrote:


PS-Lets get morality and the Bible back in the class room where it belongs.




How about the Quran and the Vedas as well?  Oh, and maybe some scientology literature.




Not to mention various iterations of Books of Shadows, the Avesta, the Eddas...

Shared pain is lessened, shared joy increased. Thus do we refute entropy. - Mike Callahan, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 21, 2009 - 11:52PM #35
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Not the Avesta; just the Gathas- only the Gathas were written by Zoaster and written in ancient Avestan

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 2:59AM #36
Vistronic
Posts: 1,830

Sep 21, 2009 -- 8:01PM, dblad wrote:


Vistronic


I thought you used the KJV... (YEA SORRY)


 


The Tenth Commandment


Exodus 20:17 (King James Version)


  17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


 


His manservant (male slave) nor his maidservant (female slave) 


 




That was the historic norm at the time by just mentioning it it does not sanction it, we must take these in the time frame given. That goes for all the other commandments I was talking about, take them in the time frame given, cross reference or triangulate, and see if they pass through the cross of Christ.


I think thay all pass throgh, I really think you are nit picking here, You know what the just of the verse is saying, but instead of taking the just of it, you pick at the borders, I really dont get that take them for what they are.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 5:49AM #37
DGMelby
Posts: 970

Sep 21, 2009 -- 5:03PM, Vistronic wrote:

Depending upon how Ten Commandments are interpreted, the Exodus 20 version contain a total of 19 to 25 separate instructions. These have been traditionally sorted into ten groups. Unfortunately, various faith groups sort them differently. This makes inter-faith dialog very difficult at times, and can cause conflicts over which version of the Decalogue is to be displayed.


This is a red herring the message is not changed.



It isn't a red herring, Vis, because how those commandments are sorted does change the importance of the message.


For example,


I am the Lord God


Who brought you out of Egypt (usually not mentioned)
You shall not have any God before Me
You shall not make graven idols...


You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
Remember the Sabbath Day, and keep it holy
Honor your father and mother
Do not kill
Do not commit adultary
Do not steal
Do not bear false witness against thy neighbor
Do not covet your neighbor's wife
Do not covet your neighbors possessions


This is how I break down the Ten Commandments.  This is the catholic grouping of the Ten Commandments, which includes the Catholic Church, as well as "Catholic lite" Protestant denominations like Lutherans.  This puts a heavier emphasis against adultary than other Protestant denominations by breaking apart Exodus 20:17 into two commandments, while grouping all our obligations to God under one single commandment.


Judaism, on the other hand, puts a special emphasis on who that God is:  the one that brought them out of Egypt.  Both the Protestand and the catholic versions of the Ten Commandments usually don't even mention the whole "who brought you out of Egypt" aspect of it.


Sep 21, 2009 -- 5:03PM, Vistronic wrote:

The prohibition against "any graven image, or any likeness of any thing...," if interpreted literally, would seem to forbid a wide range of objects, including a statue in a church, a cross, a crucifix, or even to a photograph of a person. However, many denominations do not interpret this passage in isolation or do not interpret it literally. This allows Eastern Orthodox churches to display icons, Roman Catholic churches to contains statues, and many Protestant churches to contain drawings and/or photographs.


Take it in context like I said above. Again this does not change the message it is about IDOLS IMHO.



Contrary to your opinion, the prohibition against graven idols in Judaism has long been a prohibition any kind of iconography, including representations of living beings, not just religious icons.  There is a reason why artwork was limited to geometric shapes.  Of course, these days, this is just ignored.


Sep 21, 2009 -- 5:03PM, Vistronic wrote:

Reserving the Sabbath (Saturday) as a day of rest. The vast majority of churches have their main services on Sunday. Only Sabbaterian denominations, like the Seventh Day Adventists and Seventh Day Baptists, follow celebrate on Saturday.


Regardless f the day it is an important concept to bad walmart dropped it.



If Christians didn't go shopping on Sunday, then all stores (not just Walmart) and restaraunts would close.  Does it really surprise you that corporations are secular?


And yes, the actual Sabbath is on a Saturday.  The fact that most Christians moved the day of worship to Sunday doesn't change the actual Sabbath.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 10:31AM #38
dblad
Posts: 1,703

Food for thought... Vis


If we can be acceptable to God by obeying the Law, it was useless for Christ to die.


 How were you given God's Spirit? Was it by obeying the Law of Moses or by hearing about Christ and having faith in him?


10Anyone who tries to please God by obeying the Law is under a curse. The Scriptures say, "Everyone who doesn't obey everything in the Law is under a curse." 11No one can please God by obeying the Law. The Scriptures also say, "The people God accepts because of their faith will live." 12The Law isn't based on faith. It promises life only to people who obey its commands. 13But Christ rescued us from the Law's curse, when he became a curse in our place. This is because the Scriptures say that anyone who is nailed to a tree is under a curse. 14And because of what Jesus Christ has done, the blessing that was promised to Abraham was taken to the Gentiles. This happened so that by faith we would be given the promised Holy Spirit.


From Galatians 2 and 3


 


 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 11:21AM #39
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Please keep theological points to the appropriate forums

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 12:56PM #40
Vistronic
Posts: 1,830

""Sep 21, 2009 --  4:03PM, Vistronic wrote:

The prohibition against "any graven image, or any likeness of any thing...," if interpreted literally, would seem to forbid a wide range of objects, including a statue in a church, a cross, a crucifix, or even to a photograph of a person. However, many denominations do not interpret this passage in isolation or do not interpret it literally. This allows Eastern Orthodox churches to display icons, Roman Catholic churches to contains statues, and many Protestant churches to contain drawings and/or photographs.




Take it in context like I said above. Again this does not change the message it is about IDOLS IMHO.







Contrary to your opinion, the prohibition against graven idols in Judaism has long been a prohibition any kind of iconography, including representations of living beings, not justreason why artwork was limited to geometric shapes.  Of course, these days, this is just ignored.""


 


I find that very very interesting, is that really what that verse means I wonder? Does that also include,stars, trees, water, and so on? What of Art?


Video, Photos the list goes on...

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