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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 3:29PM #31
world citizen
Posts: 5,549

Jul 29, 2009 -- 1:31PM, whirlinggal wrote:


Jul 29, 2009 -- 1:24PM, Grinandbearit wrote:


Same old tired argument, devoid of God's plan, with no mention of how the Israelites have been slaughtered throughout the ages.





You mean the way ISRAELIS have been slaughtering Palestinians?




WG, I'm unaware of Israelis slaughtering Palestinians.  I AM aware of rockets frequently being fired into Israel and Israeli retaliations, as well as many border skirmishes.  Could you please provide a news source that I could read about the "slaughtering" taking place.  Thanks.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 3:40PM #32
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jul 29, 2009 -- 2:30PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Grinandbearit:  The gift of this Land to Abraham and his descendants was based on an unconditional covenant from God Himself.


 


Let them produce the deed.  Didn't ol' Abe actually buy a plot of land?  They could have that.  I don't understand how buying a plot of land to bury your wife constitutes a right to an entire country.  Hey, if you have the contract, feel free to share.





The Deed is the Bible itself, that's if you believe it.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 3:47PM #33
world citizen
Posts: 5,549

Palestine was occupied and ruled by the Jews since the days of Moses until the Romans annexed it during the time of Christ.  Jesus was Palestinian.  Jesus was a Jew.  After a war against the Romans that the Jews lost in 135 CE, the Romans named it Syria Palaestina and the Jews were scattered.  Muslim Palestinians have only claimed the land since the 7th Century.  After the First World War, it came under British control and the British parted the territory. They named the land east of the Jordan River as Trans-Jordan, and most of the land on the east side is now known as Jordan and Syria. Jordan still controls a larger part of Palestinian land than does Israel.  The re-established (and legal by U.N. standards) Jewish homeland of Israel is only west of the River Jordan and miniscule by comparison with its neighboring territories - hardly the size of New Jersey.


Where is the Palestinians' uproar over their lost land within Jordan?
Where is the Palestinians' uproar over their lost land within Syria?
Why don't/won't these Muslim countries assimilate their own brethren into what should also be viewed as Palestinian land?
It's obviously much easier for them to figuratively piss on the Jews.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 3:56PM #34
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Jul 29, 2009 -- 3:40PM, Roodog wrote:


Jul 29, 2009 -- 2:30PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Grinandbearit:  The gift of this Land to Abraham and his descendants was based on an unconditional covenant from God Himself.


 


Let them produce the deed.  Didn't ol' Abe actually buy a plot of land?  They could have that.  I don't understand how buying a plot of land to bury your wife constitutes a right to an entire country.  Hey, if you have the contract, feel free to share.





The Deed is the Bible itself, that's if you believe it.




Or how you read or believe it. Much of this points to some of what End-Timers believe.


The three Peoples of the Book are often considered to be the Jewish, the Christians and the Muslims.


When I first read G&B's remark of surprise that no one was defending Israel the bells went off that the post wasn't about international politics but faith-based somehow, and probably a bit narrowly based. My guess was on target.



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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 4:14PM #35
Chokmah
Posts: 3,088

The European invasion of Palestine began in the late 1800's and accelerated during the Nazi regime in Europe during the 1930's. At the time of David Ben Gurion (an Ashkenazim or "Rhineland Jew"), there were only a few thousand Jews living in Palestine and HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of Semitic Palestinians. After WWII all bets were off and European guilt allowed the complete takeover of Palestine by European Jewish terrorists in the form of the Irgun and Stern gangs.


U.S. imperialists have financed the Zionist expansion since that time. Over $200 BILLION (current dollar value) of U.S. Taxpayer dollars have helped to turn Israel into a modern Zionist State that practices Apartheid against the Semitic peoples of Palestine. Today Gaza is the largest Open Air Concentration Camp in the History of Mankind. U.S. Imperialists are the largest backers and financiers of racism in the World. 


 


 


 


 


 

"We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom"
      --Stephen Vincent Benet
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 4:16PM #36
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Jul 29, 2009 -- 3:47PM, world citizen wrote:


Palestine was occupied and ruled by the Jews since the days of Moses until the Romans annexed it during the time of Christ.  Jesus was Palestinian.  Jesus was a Jew.  After a war against the Romans that the Jews lost in 135 CE, the Romans named it Syria Palaestina and the Jews were scattered.  Muslim Palestinians have only claimed the land since the 7th Century.  After the First World War, it came under British control and the British parted the territory. They named the land east of the Jordan River as Trans-Jordan, and most of the land on the east side is now known as Jordan and Syria. Jordan still controls a larger part of Palestinian land than does Israel.  The re-established (and legal by U.N. standards) Jewish homeland of Israel is only west of the River Jordan and miniscule by comparison with its neighboring territories - hardly the size of New Jersey.


Where is the Palestinians' uproar over their lost land within Jordan?
Where is the Palestinians' uproar over their lost land within Syria?
Why don't/won't these Muslim countries assimilate their own brethren into what should also be viewed as Palestinian land?
It's obviously much easier for them to figuratively piss on the Jews.




I've often maintained that the British Empire caused many of the problems still extant in the world today.


While living in Thailand I went with a friend to visit the British and Dutch graves on islets in the River Kwai. They died for Empire. Americans who had been buried on those sites were reburied on American soil in Hawaii, which the Japanese had bombed.


Arabs and Jews were originally both semitic peoples.


The Brits still control six counties in Northern Ireland--conquered, par of Empire.


I hope Obama sticks to his stand. And I wish we American taxpayers could get out from under the monetary support of Israel. Israel is no ally of ours in any real sense. They only real enmity between the US and Arab lands has been caused by our support of Israel.



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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 4:18PM #37
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jul 29, 2009 -- 3:56PM, jane2 wrote:


Jul 29, 2009 -- 3:40PM, Roodog wrote:


Jul 29, 2009 -- 2:30PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Grinandbearit:  The gift of this Land to Abraham and his descendants was based on an unconditional covenant from God Himself.


 


Let them produce the deed.  Didn't ol' Abe actually buy a plot of land?  They could have that.  I don't understand how buying a plot of land to bury your wife constitutes a right to an entire country.  Hey, if you have the contract, feel free to share.





The Deed is the Bible itself, that's if you believe it.




Or how you read or believe it. Much of this points to some of what End-Timers believe.


The three Peoples of the Book are often considered to be the Jewish, the Christians and the Muslims.


When I first read G&B's remark of surprise that no one was defending Israel the bells went off that the post wasn't about international politics but faith-based somehow, and probably a bit narrowly based. My guess was on target.


 





I hold to the Bible being the deed, but the Bible commands the Jews to be just while living in the land. Therefore oppression is forbidden, the Arab inhabitants are not Caananites but fellow sons of Abraham.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 4:23PM #38
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Jul 29, 2009 -- 4:14PM, Chokmah wrote:


The European invasion of Palestine began in the late 1800's and accelerated during the Nazi regime in Europe during the 1930's. At the time of David Ben Gurion (an Ashkenazim or "Rhineland Jew"), there were only a few thousand Jews living in Palestine and HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of Semitic Palestinians. After WWII all bets were off and European guilt allowed the complete takeover of Palestine by European Jewish terrorists in the form of the Irgun and Stern gangs.


U.S. imperialists have financed the Zionist expansion since that time. Over $200 BILLION (current dollar value) of U.S. Taxpayer dollars have helped to turn Israel into a modern Zionist State that practices Apartheid against the Semitic peoples of Palestine. Today Gaza is the largest Open Air Concentration Camp in the History of Mankind. U.S. Imperialists are the largest backers and financiers of racism in the World. 


 


 


 


 


 




You and I were posting at about the same time. I'm glad for the details.


I don't know that Americans are Imperialist backers of racism.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 4:50PM #39
world citizen
Posts: 5,549

European guilt allowed the complete takeover of Palestine by European Jewish terrorists in the form of the Irgun and Stern gangs.


How could it be "complete takeover of Palestine" if most former Palestinian land is within Jordanian and Syrian borders?  It's also my understanding that most of Jewish occupied land pre-Statehood had been legally purchased.  The Arabs were happy to sell what was, at the time, perceived to be worthless and barren land to the Jews for a good price.


While the Irgun and the Stern Gang (even moreso) could be very brutal, their enemy and dedication of purpose was removal of the British.  They weren't involved with land takeovers.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 29, 2009 - 4:51PM #40
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Jul 29, 2009 -- 11:45AM, Grinandbearit wrote:



The gift of this Land to Abraham and his descendants was based on an unconditional covenant from God Himself.

Genesis 17:7-8 states:
“And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojourning, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

In Genesis 17:18, Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before Thee.” But God’s answer was, and is, very clear. In Genesis 17:19, God answered Abraham, “No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.”

God promised to bless Ishmael and to make him a great nation: “And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation” (Genesis 17:20). However, the bloodline of the covenant promise concerning the Land would go through Isaac, not Ishmael: “…In Isaac your descendants shall be called” (Hebrews 11:18).

This Land was not given to the other sons of Abraham, but only to Isaac. The Lord God revealed to Jacob His message about this land. In Genesis 28:13-15, we read:

“I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall also be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed. And behold, I am with you, and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”

"This is the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, 'I will give it to your offspring'" (Deuteronomy 34:4).




Covenant with a Jewish God. What about our God? Do we have to honor a covenant with a minor God?

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