Its because society as we know it has been let go on unchecked for too long. Materialism IS all we have, or atleast anymore. It is consumerism that has replaced any hope of achieving an American culture or identity. Saddly, it means nothing in the world view to be American excapt that you are probably loud, obnoxious, over-weight, and arrogant on top of it all. We have managed to create a system that sucks the life out of everything we do, we strive to break even before we die. A majority of our time is consumed by work and when we aren't working we are being fed a media campaign of fear and consumption. Needless to say all of this riggor makes us empty as we troll through our hollow existance and hey, why not fill the void with a myriad of quick, cheap food and then panic once we realise we are fat and then move to consume whatever fad comes along in the form of exercise or diet.

But I think I have made my point.

I hope I did not say anything to make you think so.

I was responding only to no matter what we believe, whether materialism is a delusion to what is really real or not, it seems to be here......and seems to distract us from more important "things" in life.

I would speculate there are as many atheist that live a simple life as there are people who believe that materialism is a delusion. 

I don't know actually what I believe, but I know I struggle with moderation and sensibility.

I never said anything about proving my assertion that materialism is all that we have.

 But all those years I lived as a Christian and as an ascetic, I never saw evidence of anything besides the material world. No matter how much I fasted, prayed, recited the Psalms, or any of the other spiritual disciplines -- I saw no evidence of a deity, of angels, demons, or anything else besides this material world.

   You were looking for something outside of yourself. You are not going to see  deities,  angels, demons, or anything else out there that you can prove.  That is precisely what materialism is.


Of course, that is nothing but my own experience, and therefore is no evidence or proof of anything -- but then, all anyone has is his or her own experience, or, as Emerson and Whitman noted, the experiences of dead prophets and dead poets who lived and died before us. But why trust the experiences, the so-called "evidences" of these long-dead prophets and poets?cannot see  anything besides this material world because you are looking in the material world.  Obviously, all you will see there is material.

"Proof" can only exist in materiality, in the objective world. The spiritual experience is subjective.  You will not find that kind of "proof" there.


Of course, that is nothing but my own experience, and therefore is no evidence or proof of anything -- but then, all anyone has is his or her own experience, or, as Emerson and Whitman noted, the experiences of dead prophets and dead poets who lived and died before us. But why trust the experiences, the so-called "evidences" of these long-dead prophets and poets?

Their experiences are menus to you.  You cannot eat menues.  You have to find the food they are referring to.  And that is not in the material world.  The material world is  just a menu.

Mar 2, 2009 -- 12:06AM, johndavid23 wrote:

costrel,

 

Please note that attempting to discuss the relative merits and fallacies of materialist thought does not constitute calling them a materialist.  One assuming that that is so, however, is a possible indication of one's latent defensive awareness of one's  present path.

No, I do have a latent defensiveness to my present paths of atheism and strict materialism. I do, however, understand that many theists consider atheism and strict materialism, as one Christian so clearly explained to me on the Christian Debate Board, to be evil. So if I have any defensiveness in my posts (and I am sure that I do), it is my attempt at explaining that my lifestyle and my beliefs are not evil, regardless of what some theists may think.

(I also wonder how many people who criticize materialism have ever tried to live an ascetical and an anti-materialistic life. They would probably fail at it just as I failed at it. I , by the way, am glad that I failed at it.)

Edited for clarity.

There is no better way to kill a thread than post ones Spiritual beliefs on a Forum that deals with such practical matters such as politics. For this I do aplogize!