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Locked: A world built on materialism...
5 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2009 - 8:00PM #11
CityZen_X
Posts: 2,465

Feb 28, 2009 -- 9:38AM, Boblight7 wrote:


 CZ, 59, They are all false Ego-gods/goddesses of the past. RIP!  Let US hope the 21st century begins sometype of " higher Consciousnes".. Materialism is like "  Castles made of sand"  Bob




Youza Bob! A "higher consciousness" certainly is in order for the survival of mankind. It's either that or it will all "melt into the sea, eventually!"

To "choose" dogma and faith over doubt and experiment is to throw out the ripening vintage and to reach greedily for the Kool-Aid."

Christopher Hitchens

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.
  - Sir Richard Francis Burton
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 1:41AM #12
VG59
Posts: 3,368

Whether one believes that materialism is a delusion or not, the reality is that people buy into what you believe is a delusion and it effects us all when the majority are driven to excess. 


 

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 8:53AM #13
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

Yes, VG, all are affected in some way by the excesses of materialism and the toppling of its house of cards.  That is why I attempted to counsel some balance, some other ways of viewing what is happening.  It is interesting to note the resistance to the thought that there is any other way of viewing human existence than through the lens of "rational determinism" which has now manifested as crass materialism.  This is called the stage of "denial".

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 11:02AM #14
Boblight7
Posts: 217

With the Power Of Soul, anything is possible!

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 11:11AM #15
Chokmah
Posts: 3,088

We live in a material world, we need material to exist. There is nothing wrong with materialism. Human advancement came when people stopped obsessing with the next world and started to pay more attention to this world.


What is affecting our culture is 'mindless consumerism'. We have become such devourers of goods and services that we have become obese, intoxicated, sex crazed, and jealous. The sicko LW and Liberal Hollywood mentality has captured the minds of the people. Endless sports and hip hop artists fill our airwaves. The culture is in peril.


It is like the last days of Rome, or any empire infected with greed and lust. We have brought ourselves to this point because of our avarice and gluttony, and we are trying to find the easy way out so we follow pied pipers. Good looking and charismatic charlatans who tickle the ears of the uninformed and ignorant and promise them a new day of easy wealth.


Wake up kiddles, before it is too late.


 


 


 


 


 

"We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom"
      --Stephen Vincent Benet
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 11:41AM #16
costrel
Posts: 6,217

Mar 1, 2009 -- 11:11AM, Chokmah wrote:


We live in a material world, we need material to exist. There is nothing wrong with materialism. Human advancement came when people stopped obsessing with the next world and started to pay more attention to this world.


What is affecting our culture is 'mindless consumerism'. We have become such devourers of goods and services that we have become obese, intoxicated, sex crazed, and jealous. The sicko LW and Liberal Hollywood mentality has captured the minds of the people. Endless sports and hip hop artists fill our airwaves. The culture is in peril.


It is like the last days of Rome, or any empire infected with greed and lust. We have brought ourselves to this point because of our avarice and gluttony, and we are trying to find the easy way out so we follow pied pipers. Good looking and charismatic charlatans who tickle the ears of the uninformed and ignorant and promise them a new day of easy wealth.


Wake up kiddles, before it is too late.



Why do you single out hip-hop artists rather than the entirety of the popular music scenes (including rock, country, jazz, etc.?).


I see lots of references of late to Rome, but I'm guessing that most Christians would not opt to do what many wonderful and holy Christians did during the fall of Rome, like Benedict of Nursia -- abandon the city and civilization, sell everything as Jesus commanded, move out into the deserts and the wilderness, and live a contemplative, ascetical life as a monastic, thinking not on the delusion and the ephemeralness of the material world, but on the reality of the Kingdom of God -- the real world without end. Like Benedict says in his rule (4.7): "Keep the reality of death always before your eyes."

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 11:46AM #17
costrel
Posts: 6,217

Feb 28, 2009 -- 7:16PM, johndavid23 wrote:


costrel,


 


Certainly, to a materialist, materialism is all we have.


And, likewise, to a philosopher, mind is all we have:  to a spiritualist, spirit is all we have.


Sorry, but you cannot prove your assertions about what exists after death, only your inability to know these things.




I never said anything about proving my assertion that materialism is all that we have. But all those years I lived as a Christian and as an ascetic, I never saw evidence of anything besides the material world. No matter how much I fasted, prayed, recited the Psalms, or any of the other spiritual disciplines -- I saw no evidence of a deity, of angels, demons, or anything else besides this material world. Of course, that is nothing but my own experience, and therefore is no evidence or proof of anything -- but then, all anyone has is his or her own experience, or, as Emerson and Whitman noted, the experiences of dead prophets and dead poets who lived and died before us. But why trust the experiences, the so-called "evidences" of these long-dead prophets and poets?

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 2:50PM #18
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

costrel,


I am sad to hear that your "spiritual disciplines" failed to reveal the inner life.


I would suggest alternative experiences/religions/disciplines.


What I advocate is a balanced life (middle way?) which respects both the inner and the external.


Thus, one is not consumed by crass materialism (which even the astrophysicists admit is a small portion of the Reality in which we live).


A society which does so would care for the real material needs of all, recognizing that no individual is separate, that the nature of society is interwoven.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 3:13PM #19
aws720k
Posts: 1,900

This is neither philosophical, nor spiritual....but Bill Maher set forth a 'New Rule' in his HBO show this week:  Enough With Mindless Consumption  Watch Video

The Snuggie.

The blanket with sleeves-oh, let's call it what it really is, a full-length bib-and we are the new Arabs. In danger of becoming a silly people. Which was OK when we were riding high, but now every man, woman and child in America owes China $6,000. Imagine owing that to a bookie. This is sooo cozy. [Yes, he put one on for this bit.]

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was in China this week, trying to get them to buy more American debt. And they think their milk is toxic. We need the Chinese to finance our printing of money to give to bankers, or else we'll be paying for the stimulus with seashells and colorful rocks. If the Chinese get a look at us in our Snuggies-and they will, since they make the damn things-they're going to decide, "We can't buy any more T-bills from these people! They're wearing blankets with sleeves. They're a silly people."  

Did you know that decades after what's been described as an oil-dependence emergency, America has developed zero alternative-energy vehicles but has marketed the ShamWow!, the Flowbee, the BeDazzler, Crocs, sweat pants that say "Juicy" across the derriere, botox, Ginsu knives, Pinkberry, Dane Cook and the George Foreman grill? In World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt and Congress agreed: It's crisis time, and they ordered Detroit to switch over and only make tanks and planes. And they did. Detroit got out of the car business altogether-on purpose, not the way they're doing it now. We haven't gotten it through our thick skulls: Party time is over. No more stretch Humvee with a hot tub. No more space tourism. No more cloning the cat. No more ordering the thing from TV that cuts onions with a vacuum.

  [more here]  

This is the moment, that moment where we all must steel our resolve, reach through our blankets' sleeves, grab our farting phones, and send off a mighty Twitter saying, "We have to get involved and learn how to do things and make things again!"

I'm thinking this through!

Annie

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2009 - 6:45PM #20
costrel
Posts: 6,217

Mar 1, 2009 -- 2:50PM, johndavid23 wrote:


costrel,


I am sad to hear that your "spiritual disciplines" failed to reveal the inner life.


I would suggest alternative experiences/religions/disciplines.


What I advocate is a balanced life (middle way?) which respects both the inner and the external.


Thus, one is not consumed by crass materialism (which even the astrophysicists admit is a small portion of the Reality in which we live).


A society which does so would care for the real material needs of all, recognizing that no individual is separate, that the nature of society is interwoven.




There's no need to be sorry. I have a wonderul inner life -- my imagination, my morality, my code of ethics, the books I read, etc. But I do not believe that the spiritual realm -- including a god/s, angels, demons, heaven, hell, or anything else -- exists outside of a person's mind or outside of the books people have written.


And no, I am not "consumed by crass materialism." I may accept that this material existence is all that there is, but that does not mean I am "consumed" by consumerism, popular culture, advertising, or similar things. I purchase what I need, what is essential, and only rarely do I buy things I really don't need (like books and candy). I own only what I can carry in a small trailer behind my vehicle, so I suppose one could say this makes me a crass materialist, as I actually own possessions rather than selling all that I own like monastics do -- but I personally do not consider myself a "crass materialist," nor do I consider myself consumed by the things I own.

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