| 4 years ago :: Feb 10, 2009 - 11:31PM #1 | |
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It appears that the Christian Theocrats have lost another round. The City Council of Fredericksburg, VA has a policy that prayers before meetings be non-sectarian. In enforcing this policy, the council refused to allow Councilman Hashmel Turner, a minister, to pray in the name of Jesus. Turner claimed that his religious freedom rights were violated. The case went to court and after losing in District Court, Turner appealed to the Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit. In a unanimous decision written by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor who was sitting on the court by special designation, the court said that legislative prayer is government speech, and that Rev. Turner's rights were not violated. http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/061944.P.pdf
SCOTUS has refused cert.
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
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| 4 years ago :: Feb 11, 2009 - 1:12AM #2 | |
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He has the right to pray any way he wants in his church, his home, or in any place he wants, but the does not have the right to force his religion in or on a government meeting. Now we just have to get them kicked out of Congress.
Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.
I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife. |
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| 4 years ago :: Feb 11, 2009 - 10:46PM #3 | |
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| 4 years ago :: Feb 11, 2009 - 10:49PM #4 | |
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I personally am having a hard time seeing how a prayer can be anything but sectarian.
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.
-- Tori Amos |
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| 4 years ago :: Feb 11, 2009 - 10:51PM #5 | |
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| 4 years ago :: Feb 12, 2009 - 1:00AM #6 | |
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Members of the Christian Taliban insist on having prayer to open sessions of legislative bodies from the city to the federal level. The thing is, they also believe that such prayer must be Christian, although they can tolerate an occasional Jewish prayer, as long as the Jewish people don't get to uppity and expect to have the right every month or so. In July 2007 a Hundu chaplin, Rajan Zed, was invited to open the Senate secession with a prayer. If you listen to the enclosed link, you will understand that Christians are not interested in any ecumenical actions by our government. Bigots must be bigots, I guess.
The actions of the Religious Reich activists do not speak for the mainstreem Christian majority, but they certainly have political clout due to the money they receive from their fearful herd of sheep that the leaders have frightened into marching in lockstep to avoid a make believe future of fire and brimstone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9To30H … 1&index=30
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
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| 4 years ago :: Feb 12, 2009 - 10:20PM #7 | |
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[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]#6 (TPaine) -- Oh, I know all that. It still exasperates me, though, sometimes. That, and it always makes me recall the old Monty Python "Church Bells" skit. ("What about us atheists? Why should we have to listen to that sectarian nonsense? The Mohammedens don't come 'round waving bells at us. We don't have Buddhists playing bagpipes in the bathroom or Hindus harmonizing in the hall ... " etc.) :D
Speaking of Hindus, I do recall hearing about that incident when it happened, and thought that it was extraordinarily rude towards the Hindu gentleman who was giving the invocation. If you can't maintain a respectful silence while a religious (or other) ritual is being performed, then leave quietly and come back when it's over. It's called Simple Courtesy 101, and is not that hard. I also -- then as now -- wondered, "Why in the world do we need Hindus, or Christians, or anybody, to perform a public, government-sanctioned prayer before conducting government business? Can't we just get on with it?" Sorry to sound so bah-humbug about it, but ... bah. Humbug. Ahoy, Chiyo! It is a pleasure to see you here, as it is anywhere. :)[/SIZE][/FONT] |
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| 4 years ago :: Feb 13, 2009 - 1:16PM #8 | |
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Kemay, When I try to figure out what the intent of the Framers was, I tend to look at what the "Father of the Constitution," said:
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