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Switch to Forum Live View Is Peace Out Of Reach?
9 years ago  ::  Aug 24, 2009 - 2:02AM #41
Stardove
Posts: 17,597

I am so grateful I found the lid on the religious box I was raised in and had the good sense to get out of that box.


Mankind may be pushing for "the end", but I don't believe that is Creator's plan.


 

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove


People change for two main reasons: either their minds have been opened or their hearts have been broken.
---Anonymous

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2009 - 4:54PM #42
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

First the Battle of Ar Mageddon must come. Then there will be piece for a thousand years.

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2009 - 5:02PM #43
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

make that peace

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2009 - 12:46AM #44
habesor
Posts: 6,223

Shmuel wrote:



"Israel is safer than many, if not most, locations in the US."


To which Kindredsai replied:


For who? Israeli Jews and Israeli-Arab citizens?


But what about Palestinians living under Israeli occupation of West Bank and Gaza?


 


I don't know about the situation for Arabs in the USA. There are a lot of complaints but I suspect that they are exaggerations. However, Palestinians living under Israeli occupation are far safer than Palestinians living under the occupation of the Tunisians, oops, I mean under the PLO and are safer than those living under Hamas rule in the Gaza strip and are by a very wide margin safer than Palestinians living in Lebanon, Iraq or Kuwait.


Habesor


Habesor
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2009 - 6:51PM #45
KindredSai
Posts: 7,425

Sep 2, 2009 -- 12:46AM, habesor wrote:


Shmuel wrote:


 


"Israel is safer than many, if not most, locations in the US."


To which Kindredsai replied:


For who? Israeli Jews and Israeli-Arab citizens?


But what about Palestinians living under Israeli occupation of West Bank and Gaza?


 


I don't know about the situation for Arabs in the USA. There are a lot of complaints but I suspect that they are exaggerations. However, Palestinians living under Israeli occupation are far safer than Palestinians living under the occupation of the Tunisians, oops, I mean under the PLO and are safer than those living under Hamas rule in the Gaza strip and are by a very wide margin safer than Palestinians living in Lebanon, Iraq or Kuwait.


Habesor


 




 


This is a very fallacious argument with intention of distracting us from the actual Israeli occupation, one could argue for example Palestinians would not be living under Tunisian, PLO and Hamas occupation were it not for Israel.


 

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 03, 2009 - 12:58AM #46
habesor
Posts: 6,223

Kindredsai, you wrote:


"This is a very fallacious argument with intention of distracting us from the actual Israeli occupation, one could argue for example Palestinians would not be living under Tunisian, PLO and Hamas occupation were it not for Israel."


Were it not for Israel the Palestinians would be living under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation. In neither case did those occupations allow the Palestinians more rights than the Israeli occupation and in fact allowed for significantly less rights. Indeed, if we examine the score card, the Jordanian army has killed far more Palestinians than the Israeli army or for that matter any other army, save for the Palestinians themselves, who seem to have won the prize when it comes to killing other Palestinians.


Habesor


PS - But I know that we are supposed to be focused exclusively on Israel. But then again, I think that the welfare of the Palestinians is important. But that is only a value judgement on my part. 


Habesor
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2009 - 11:16AM #47
Lighting
Posts: 8

This is a very sad situation and it horrible what is happening in the middle east, there are many people that would go visit the middle east if it was a safe country.  People are courious about other people and places.  If the world was at peace and there was no war, good trade agreements between all and freedom for all people, men and woman and all races and religious freedom.  That would be wonderful.  But to fight because you are not the same kind.  Is wrong.  I wish and pray that there would be peace among all people. 

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2009 - 5:21PM #48
KindredSai
Posts: 7,425

Sep 3, 2009 -- 12:58AM, habesor wrote:


Kindredsai, you wrote:


"This is a very fallacious argument with intention of distracting us from the actual Israeli occupation, one could argue for example Palestinians would not be living under Tunisian, PLO and Hamas occupation were it not for Israel."


Were it not for Israel the Palestinians would be living under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation. In neither case did those occupations allow the Palestinians more rights than the Israeli occupation and in fact allowed for significantly less rights. Indeed, if we examine the score card, the Jordanian army has killed far more Palestinians than the Israeli army or for that matter any other army, save for the Palestinians themselves, who seem to have won the prize when it comes to killing other Palestinians.


Habesor


PS - But I know that we are supposed to be focused exclusively on Israel. But then again, I think that the welfare of the Palestinians is important. But that is only a value judgement on my part. 





 


 I would firstly like to point out that Israel's creation has created a refugee crisis as well as putting Palestinians under occupation, being under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation is beside the point. The reality is no occupation is good regardless of which offers the best rights.


There is no evidence to show that Palestinians for the past 60 years have been killed by more Jordanian and fellow Palestinians than Israel. If you have this documented evidence show me.


As I understand regarding deaths in territories, Israel has caused more Palestinian civilians more than any foreign entity.


Zionism and Islamism are brothers from a mother of aggression.



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9 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2009 - 9:44PM #49
Mubzxay
Posts: 193

Firstly... Peace is ALWAYS pssibe...(and not just the, "rest in..." variety)


Secondly, i would love to go to Tel Aviv, have to persuade my wife to have a much-delayed honeymoon there... (Going to Tel Aviv would have the added advantage of me not being allowed to go to my in-law's country (figure that out yourself)


 


There used to be go to Is-ra-ell TV adverts when i was younger...


 


Sorry, but just to re-iterate... Peace is ALWAYS possible, and (nearly) ALWAYS prefereable


 


(Imagine if there was an Olympic Games In Jerusalem...or the FIFA World cup... or a continental Football championship (Israel's lucky enough to get to pick from two! So not fair!) But without peace...it's not going to happen)

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9 years ago  ::  Sep 14, 2009 - 3:48AM #50
habesor
Posts: 6,223

Kindredsai, you wrote:



"I would firstly like to point out that Israel's creation has created a refugee crisis as well as putting Palestinians under occupation, being under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation is beside the point. The reality is no occupation is good regardless of which offers the best rights."


Israel's creation did not create the Palestinian refugee problem. The Arab refusal to compromise and accept Israel's creation along side an Arab Palestinian state and the Arab resort to armed warfare to attack Israel created the Palestinian refugee problem. The perpetuation of that problem was a partnership between the United Nations and the Arab Middle Eastern states which refused to make peace with Israel as well as refused to let the Palestinian Arabs create their own state. Hence, Jordanian and Egyptian occupation of Palestinian territory is anything but beside the point.


There is no evidence to show that Palestinians for the past 60 years have been killed by more Jordanian and fellow Palestinians than Israel. If you have this documented evidence show me.


There is plenty of evidence, its just that you refuse to see it. Read almost anything about Black September in Jordan or the War of the Camps in Lebanon and you will see numbers of dead Palestinians at the hands of their Arab brothers higher than anything Israel has even been accused of. As for Palestinians killing Palestinians, well it doesn't make headlines in the western press but here is just one example:




hmicahhalpern.com/archives/2006/04/palest...


Habesor




Habesor
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