First the Battle of Ar Mageddon must come. Then there will be piece for a thousand years.

Shmuel wrote:

"Israel is safer than many, if not most, locations in the US."

To which Kindredsai replied:

For who? Israeli Jews and Israeli-Arab citizens?

But what about Palestinians living under Israeli occupation of West Bank and Gaza?

I don't know about the situation for Arabs in the USA. There are a lot of complaints but I suspect that they are exaggerations. However, Palestinians living under Israeli occupation are far safer than Palestinians living under the occupation of the Tunisians, oops, I mean under the PLO and are safer than those living under Hamas rule in the Gaza strip and are by a very wide margin safer than Palestinians living in Lebanon, Iraq or Kuwait.

Habesor

Kindredsai, you wrote:

"This is a very fallacious argument with intention of distracting us from the actual Israeli occupation, one could argue for example Palestinians would not be living under Tunisian, PLO and Hamas occupation were it not for Israel."

Were it not for Israel the Palestinians would be living under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation. In neither case did those occupations allow the Palestinians more rights than the Israeli occupation and in fact allowed for significantly less rights. Indeed, if we examine the score card, the Jordanian army has killed far more Palestinians than the Israeli army or for that matter any other army, save for the Palestinians themselves, who seem to have won the prize when it comes to killing other Palestinians.

Habesor

PS - But I know that we are supposed to be focused exclusively on Israel. But then again, I think that the welfare of the Palestinians is important. But that is only a value judgement on my part. 

Sep 3, 2009 -- 12:58AM, habesor wrote:

Kindredsai, you wrote:

"This is a very fallacious argument with intention of distracting us from the actual Israeli occupation, one could argue for example Palestinians would not be living under Tunisian, PLO and Hamas occupation were it not for Israel."

Were it not for Israel the Palestinians would be living under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation. In neither case did those occupations allow the Palestinians more rights than the Israeli occupation and in fact allowed for significantly less rights. Indeed, if we examine the score card, the Jordanian army has killed far more Palestinians than the Israeli army or for that matter any other army, save for the Palestinians themselves, who seem to have won the prize when it comes to killing other Palestinians.

Habesor

PS - But I know that we are supposed to be focused exclusively on Israel. But then again, I think that the welfare of the Palestinians is important. But that is only a value judgement on my part. 

 I would firstly like to point out that Israel's creation has created a refugee crisis as well as putting Palestinians under occupation, being under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation is beside the point. The reality is no occupation is good regardless of which offers the best rights.

There is no evidence to show that Palestinians for the past 60 years have been killed by more Jordanian and fellow Palestinians than Israel. If you have this documented evidence show me.

As I understand regarding deaths in territories, Israel has caused more Palestinian civilians more than any foreign entity.

Zionism and Islamism are brothers from a mother of aggression.

Kindredsai, you wrote:

"I would firstly like to point out that Israel's creation has created a refugee crisis as well as putting Palestinians under occupation, being under Jordanian and Egyptian occupation is beside the point. The reality is no occupation is good regardless of which offers the best rights."

Israel's creation did not create the Palestinian refugee problem. The Arab refusal to compromise and accept Israel's creation along side an Arab Palestinian state and the Arab resort to armed warfare to attack Israel created the Palestinian refugee problem. The perpetuation of that problem was a partnership between the United Nations and the Arab Middle Eastern states which refused to make peace with Israel as well as refused to let the Palestinian Arabs create their own state. Hence, Jordanian and Egyptian occupation of Palestinian territory is anything but beside the point.

There is no evidence to show that Palestinians for the past 60 years have been killed by more Jordanian and fellow Palestinians than Israel. If you have this documented evidence show me.

There is plenty of evidence, its just that you refuse to see it. Read almost anything about Black September in Jordan or the War of the Camps in Lebanon and you will see numbers of dead Palestinians at the hands of their Arab brothers higher than anything Israel has even been accused of. As for Palestinians killing Palestinians, well it doesn't make headlines in the western press but here is just one example:

hmicahhalpern.com/archives/2006/04/palest...