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Switch to Forum Live View Is Peace Out Of Reach?
6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 1:43AM #1
Vanillaangel
Posts: 334
60 Minutes
Has peace in the Middle East become nothing more than a pipe dream? As Bob Simon reports, a growing number of Israelis and Palestinians feel that a two-state solution is no longer possible.
January 26, 2009
Video Link


I think the answer is yes. When clearly it's not only the Palestinians that are working to effect terror and discord in the region. How is it that faith that any one god would approve the murder of women, children and men, on both sides, ever hope to effect peace in the end?! Is peace to be enjoyed when all of one's enemy are dead? Why can't people live and learn from one another? Glorify and enjoy the diversity that makes this world a living tapestry of unique differences that can serve to teach one another, as opposed to inspire one another to kill because there can be only one way to live a life?!

I've always wanted to travel to the Holy Land. To feel what the energy of a culture thousands of years older than my own, in the States, has to offer. And yet, the violence and bloodshed make it a frightening thought of a perilous journey.

It is said, blessed are the peace makers. And yet, can there ever be peace when it seems, for so many, war is ordained as sacred duty?
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 2:01AM #2
JAstor
Posts: 3,957

Vanillaangel wrote:

60 Minutes
Has peace in the Middle East become nothing more than a pipe dream? As Bob Simon reports, a growing number of Israelis and Palestinians feel that a two-state solution is no longer possible.
January 26, 2009
Video Link


As long as Hamas controls Gaza there is no chance for peace or even a 2-state solution. They have made that clear in their Charter. You should read it. Besides a call to genocide against Jews, they declare that they will not stop until every inch of what we call Israel is an Islamic Waqf, which is another way of saying a Taliban-like totalitarian state.

Read their Charter and tell me how peace is possible:

Call to genocide:
The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
--(Article 7)

Inspiring Suicide Mass Murder:
"Allah is its goal, The Prophet its model, the Qur'an its Charter, jihad its path, and death for the cause of Allah its most sublime belief." (Article 8).

Opposition to any type of peace process:
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad. All initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are a waste of time and vain endeavors." (Article 13).

http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html


Note that last one, Article 13, in relation to your question: "All initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are a waste of time and vain endeavors."

This is what they say. No one is making it up. It is not propaganda. It is what they say. And it is backed up by how they act.

"All initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are a waste of time and vain endeavors."

How can there be peace when such people are in control?

Perhaps the Gazan people can overthrow them. Yes, then you can talk about peace or at least a 2-state solution. But the Gazan people have to get rid of Hamas. Of course, since Hamas has executed some 200 Gazan people in the past few weeks and completely overturned democracy it will be difficult to unseat them. But that is what has to be done to even get to square one.

Vanillaangel wrote:

Glorify and enjoy the diversity that makes this world a living tapestry of unique differences that can serve to teach one another, as opposed to inspire one another to kill because there can be only one way to live a life?!


Israel is a very diverse country with just about every religion and ethnic group represented, including Arab, Muslim and of course Christian. Hamas is an extremist Islamist group that has no tolerance for Jews or even non-Arabs, who do not want democracy; only an Islamist theocracy.

Vanillaangel wrote:

I've always wanted to travel to the Holy Land. To feel what the energy of a culture thousands of years older than my own, in the States, has to offer. And yet, the violence and bloodshed make it a frightening thought of a perilous journey.


In Israel you would be allowed to visit pretty much anywhere you wanted. You, of course, would have to worry about terror attacks and missiles from Islamist terror groups, but you would be free to travel and see what you want to see. If you ventured into Gaza you would, as a woman, have no rights, have to dress in accord with Islamist standards, have no real freedom of movement and, especially as an American, have to worry about being abducted.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 1:43AM #3
Vanillaangel
Posts: 334
60 Minutes
Has peace in the Middle East become nothing more than a pipe dream? As Bob Simon reports, a growing number of Israelis and Palestinians feel that a two-state solution is no longer possible.
January 26, 2009
Video Link


I think the answer is yes. When clearly it's not only the Palestinians that are working to effect terror and discord in the region. How is it that faith that any one god would approve the murder of women, children and men, on both sides, ever hope to effect peace in the end?! Is peace to be enjoyed when all of one's enemy are dead? Why can't people live and learn from one another? Glorify and enjoy the diversity that makes this world a living tapestry of unique differences that can serve to teach one another, as opposed to inspire one another to kill because there can be only one way to live a life?!

I've always wanted to travel to the Holy Land. To feel what the energy of a culture thousands of years older than my own, in the States, has to offer. And yet, the violence and bloodshed make it a frightening thought of a perilous journey.

It is said, blessed are the peace makers. And yet, can there ever be peace when it seems, for so many, war is ordained as sacred duty?
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 2:01AM #4
JAstor
Posts: 3,957

Vanillaangel wrote:

60 Minutes
Has peace in the Middle East become nothing more than a pipe dream? As Bob Simon reports, a growing number of Israelis and Palestinians feel that a two-state solution is no longer possible.
January 26, 2009
Video Link


As long as Hamas controls Gaza there is no chance for peace or even a 2-state solution. They have made that clear in their Charter. You should read it. Besides a call to genocide against Jews, they declare that they will not stop until every inch of what we call Israel is an Islamic Waqf, which is another way of saying a Taliban-like totalitarian state.

Read their Charter and tell me how peace is possible:

Call to genocide:
The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
--(Article 7)

Inspiring Suicide Mass Murder:
"Allah is its goal, The Prophet its model, the Qur'an its Charter, jihad its path, and death for the cause of Allah its most sublime belief." (Article 8).

Opposition to any type of peace process:
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad. All initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are a waste of time and vain endeavors." (Article 13).

http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html


Note that last one, Article 13, in relation to your question: "All initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are a waste of time and vain endeavors."

This is what they say. No one is making it up. It is not propaganda. It is what they say. And it is backed up by how they act.

"All initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are a waste of time and vain endeavors."

How can there be peace when such people are in control?

Perhaps the Gazan people can overthrow them. Yes, then you can talk about peace or at least a 2-state solution. But the Gazan people have to get rid of Hamas. Of course, since Hamas has executed some 200 Gazan people in the past few weeks and completely overturned democracy it will be difficult to unseat them. But that is what has to be done to even get to square one.

Vanillaangel wrote:

Glorify and enjoy the diversity that makes this world a living tapestry of unique differences that can serve to teach one another, as opposed to inspire one another to kill because there can be only one way to live a life?!


Israel is a very diverse country with just about every religion and ethnic group represented, including Arab, Muslim and of course Christian. Hamas is an extremist Islamist group that has no tolerance for Jews or even non-Arabs, who do not want democracy; only an Islamist theocracy.

Vanillaangel wrote:

I've always wanted to travel to the Holy Land. To feel what the energy of a culture thousands of years older than my own, in the States, has to offer. And yet, the violence and bloodshed make it a frightening thought of a perilous journey.


In Israel you would be allowed to visit pretty much anywhere you wanted. You, of course, would have to worry about terror attacks and missiles from Islamist terror groups, but you would be free to travel and see what you want to see. If you ventured into Gaza you would, as a woman, have no rights, have to dress in accord with Islamist standards, have no real freedom of movement and, especially as an American, have to worry about being abducted.

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 4:08PM #5
Boblight7
Posts: 217
I still think that Israel and it's Arab neighbors should work out a mutually acceptable Land for Peace, by returning most of the West Bank to Jordon, Gaza back to Eygpt, forget a Palestinian State.. I do believe that Jerusalem should be united under Israel.. Israeal will treat the HolyLand much better than Arabs where Jerusalem is not even mentioned once in the Koran( Third rate city after Mecca and Medina).. Anyone individuals caught inbetween should be offered financial help to relocate, or forever hold their peace!!
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 08, 2009 - 8:37PM #6
teilhard
Posts: 51,417
Unfortunately,
the MOST Effective "Peace Plan" LATELY
has been The Border Fence
between Israel and "The West Bank" ...

For NOW
perhaps a "Fence"
is the most REALISTIC Solution ... ???
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2009 - 6:18PM #7
Santafe
Posts: 5

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there was another Solomon? He could take many wives to make peace amongst them? ha ha


It is inevitable that all things must resolve themselves hopefully sooner than later and without violence. Truth is a big factor here and too much politics with many manipulaters behind the scene for power, and greed? Maybe God will step in and then sort out the bodies?

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2009 - 7:02AM #8
judyinjerusalem
Posts: 28

What is US policy on Israel's settlements??  Dr. Dore Gold, head of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, explains..


His main points:



1.    The Obama administration is demanding additional Israeli concessions beyond the 1993 Oslo Accords.


2.    Current settlement activity no longer diminishes Palestinian territory.


3.    The 2005 Gaza disengagement proves that a settler presence does not undermine future territorial compromise.


4.    Does the Obama administration reject defensible borders and settlement blocs and expect Israel to return to the 1967 borders?


 


To read the full report go to www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp...


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5 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2009 - 3:24AM #9
NahumS
Posts: 1,764

I have some hope that Netanyahu's new program (there's not much new about it....) will improve the situation.  Improving the lot of the Palestinian Arabs (economically, services, less Israeli interference in their daily lives) can make  adifference.


But it all depends on thier leadership. If they were smart, they would understand that a) Israel is here to stay, b)they are nowhere near ready for statehood. They would build a civil society, civil institutions (welfare, education, health, etc.) and convince Israel that they can realize their national goals and not pose a threat to Israel. But they are doing everything to convince us of the opposite!


I do not think that a Palestinian State is viable - even if Israel did not exist.  The area is too small for a Palestinian state, and it would not be able to absorb the "refugees" - and it's likely that if such a state is founded, the Arab countries will force out the "refugees" and flood it with the hope that the situation will explode and Israel will be harmed. If anyone is seriously looking for peace, the "refugees" (who have been cultivated as such for 60 years!) must be permanantly settled in the countries where they live and given citizenship there.


Evacuating hundreds of thousands of residents and destroying the Jewish communities that have grown in Judea and Samaria in the past 30 years is not a viable option. No gov't can make such a high percentage (about 5%) homeless - as was done to the expelees of Gush Katif. Logistically and socially, not to say morally, it's not an option - and Israel has to be clear about this, no matter what pressure the US president exerts. The Palestianian leadership will accept nothing less than 100% fulfillment of their dreams (especially if the US and Europe encourage them) - and that won't happen. So I don't see a resolution of th econflict in the near future.


I am not a big fan of the security fence. Security is created by rooting out dangers, not by building fences. The fence makes the lives of Palestinian Arabs difficult and creates an artificial border. It sould not be a permanent fixture.


Aside from all that - a visit to most places in Israel is quite safe. We go about our daily lives with a sense of security and optomism. It is not so easy to wander into Gaza by mistake! We live in an amazing and beautiful country and welcome visitors.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2009 - 2:12PM #10
KindredSai
Posts: 5,756

A Palestinian State is viable but Israel needs to pull her weight too.


Any critic of a Palestinian State is a support of unnecessary Zionist expansion which makes it perfectly acceptable world wide to systematically uproot a local population establish an encroaching State.

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