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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2008 - 11:09PM #1
Erey
Posts: 18,662
[QUOTE=agnosticspirit;513473]Ken, I certainly agree it was stupid and in poor taste, but....

To classify the Quran as somehow MORE sacrosanct than any holy book because we're afraid of an overly reaction by zealous extremists elevates it more than it deserves.

Kind regards,

--- AS[/QUOTE]

That is kind of it , isn't it  The bible gets yanked around, the book of Mormon, other religious artifacts - you can seriously offend people by doing that.  But the fact is most of the world would react with distaste or ambivalence if you were to deliberately and disrespectfully misuse  a holy book. 

I mean that whole christ in piss thing is IMO just stupid and gross.  If that is what you have to do to put yourself on the map as an artist then you must not have any genuine artistic talent.  I think most of christendom felt that way.  Even the uber fundamentalist christians feel like if you are going to treat the bible with disrespect then you will burn in hell so why should they get too involved. 
When the Taliban destroyed the ancient and treasured Buddhas, hords of angry buddhists did not rain down from the borders to exact retrobution. 

A young, testosterone filled soilder decided to shoot up the quran and Bush makes a public appology and the west goes into some kind of self-loathing collective gasp of anxiety over it.  We tut- tut  and tsk-tsk in our respective western countries.  Oh how will our muslims respond?  Will this become an international incedent?  how can we appease them to soothe their ruffled feathers?  OBL was right, we are a reactionary lot.
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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2008 - 11:09PM #2
Erey
Posts: 18,662
[QUOTE=agnosticspirit;513473]Ken, I certainly agree it was stupid and in poor taste, but....

To classify the Quran as somehow MORE sacrosanct than any holy book because we're afraid of an overly reaction by zealous extremists elevates it more than it deserves.

Kind regards,

--- AS[/QUOTE]

That is kind of it , isn't it  The bible gets yanked around, the book of Mormon, other religious artifacts - you can seriously offend people by doing that.  But the fact is most of the world would react with distaste or ambivalence if you were to deliberately and disrespectfully misuse  a holy book. 

I mean that whole christ in piss thing is IMO just stupid and gross.  If that is what you have to do to put yourself on the map as an artist then you must not have any genuine artistic talent.  I think most of christendom felt that way.  Even the uber fundamentalist christians feel like if you are going to treat the bible with disrespect then you will burn in hell so why should they get too involved. 
When the Taliban destroyed the ancient and treasured Buddhas, hords of angry buddhists did not rain down from the borders to exact retrobution. 

A young, testosterone filled soilder decided to shoot up the quran and Bush makes a public appology and the west goes into some kind of self-loathing collective gasp of anxiety over it.  We tut- tut  and tsk-tsk in our respective western countries.  Oh how will our muslims respond?  Will this become an international incedent?  how can we appease them to soothe their ruffled feathers?  OBL was right, we are a reactionary lot.
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 4:27PM #3
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/ma … tworkfront

The above link transports you to an article about a US soldier being suspended because he was responsible for shooting down a copy of the Quran with 14 bullets, after having smeared its cover with graffiti.

One bad apple, we are likely told. One more bad apple, we may think.

Before he went the unnamed staff sergeant apologised to the military
calling his actions "shortsighted, very reckless and irresponsible
— but not malicious".


Well, after my b'net reading experience, I must say I am not surprised, and I don't believe this "bad apple" cop-out. Not for a second.

In the midst of American opinion, there are people seeding hate and portraying the Quran as a book to be despised, devilish. What this soldier did has widespread support in America, as I know it from fellow posters here in this forum and in other, neighbouring ones. And I may need to add, this is not just an American feature, my Dutch MP Wilders is of a similar calibre.

What do my fellow posters here think?

Is shooting and smearing the Quran admissible? Commendable?
An act of free speech, to be praised?
tl;dr
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 5:19PM #4
teilhard
Posts: 51,050
Additional entirely VALID Data
MUST include
the MANY thousands
upon thousands upon THOUSANDS of Americans
-- Military and Civilian --
who have NEVER desecrated
ANY Sacred Object or Holy Book
and would NEVER consider doing any such thing ....
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 5:21PM #5
browbeaten
Posts: 3,124
[QUOTE=CharikIeia;510258]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/ma … tworkfront

The above link transports you to an article about a US soldier being suspended because he was responsible for shooting down a copy of the Quran with 14 bullets, after having smeared its cover with graffiti.

One bad apple, we are likely told. One more bad apple, we may think.

Before he went the unnamed staff sergeant apologised to the military
calling his actions "shortsighted, very reckless and irresponsible
— but not malicious".


Well, after my b'net reading experience, I must say I am not surprised, and I don't believe this "bad apple" cop-out. Not for a second.

In the midst of American opinion, there are people seeding hate and portraying the Quran as a book to be despised, devilish. What this soldier did has widespread support in America, as I know it from fellow posters here in this forum and in other, neighbouring ones. And I may need to add, this is not just an American feature, my Dutch MP Wilders is of a similar calibre.

What do my fellow posters here think?

Is shooting and smearing the Quran admissible? Commendable?
An act of free speech, to be praised?[/QUOTE]

I personally don't think it's worth talking about.  Why would someone report on it anyway? Oh, excuse me, I know.  It's because it is the Koran and involves an American soldier.  I wonder how many religious books have been burned or desecrated and none is the wiser.

.
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 5:36PM #6
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301
[QUOTE=teilhard;510379]Additional entirely VALID Data
MUST include
the MANY thousands
upon thousands upon THOUSANDS of Americans
-- Military and Civilian --
who have NEVER desecrated
ANY Sacred Object or Holy Book
and would NEVER consider doing any such thing ....[/QUOTE]
And why?
Because you want to get rid of an awkward topic?

(same holds for the other stupid retort)

- -

But I wasn't thinking of you two. I was thinking of the atheist brand of posters, mainly...
tl;dr
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 6:07PM #7
teilhard
Posts: 51,050
[QUOTE=CharikIeia;510415]And why?
Because you want to get rid of an awkward topic?

(same holds for the other stupid retort)

- -

But I wasn't thinking of you two. I was thinking of the atheist brand of posters, mainly...[/QUOTE]

Hello ... ???  What ... ???

I have no idea what you're getting at ... ???
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 8:01PM #8
rangerken
Posts: 16,406
It is a problem for three reasons.

1. Because the wrong people (the press) found out about it so...
2. Another bunch of wrong people...Muslims...also found out about it and...
3. The US is trying to appear to be NOT anti-Islam.

It was a dumb thing to do...guaranteed to cause trouble if discovered...and THAT is what I'm annoyed about. The soldier should have known better and at least made sure shooting holes through a book would not cause him the problems it has.

Now I am very well aware of what the huge majority of American servicemen and women think about radical Islam. I'm very well aware of what some American Muslims think about radical Islam (they hate it more than non-Muslims by the way). But it is not to our advantage to give the savages more fuel to pour on an already blazing fire.

Do I give the slightest damn about shooting holes through any book? Of course not. But that is not the point.

It was a dumb thing to do...even though the sentiments expressed are shared by probably 99% of all American soldiers, and that's according to my soldier son.

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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6 years ago  ::  May 19, 2008 - 8:53PM #9
ElCid22
Posts: 1,156
[QUOTE=CharikIeia;510258]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/ma … tworkfront

The above link transports you to an article about a US soldier being suspended because he was responsible for shooting down a copy of the Quran with 14 bullets, after having smeared its cover with graffiti.

One bad apple, we are likely told. One more bad apple, we may think.

Before he went the unnamed staff sergeant apologised to the military
calling his actions "shortsighted, very reckless and irresponsible
— but not malicious".


Well, after my b'net reading experience, I must say I am not surprised, and I don't believe this "bad apple" cop-out. Not for a second.

In the midst of American opinion, there are people seeding hate and portraying the Quran as a book to be despised, devilish. What this soldier did has widespread support in America, as I know it from fellow posters here in this forum and in other, neighbouring ones. And I may need to add, this is not just an American feature, my Dutch MP Wilders is of a similar calibre.

What do my fellow posters here think?

Is shooting and smearing the Quran admissible? Commendable?
An act of free speech, to be praised?[/QUOTE]

Waste of bullets.
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6 years ago  ::  May 20, 2008 - 9:38AM #10
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301
Would you want to risk your life for this soldier's right to shoot the book?

I'd like to hear some visionary statements here on how free speech and/or freedom of expression relates to that incident.

Sure, it is juvenile behaviour. But that's not what I think is important here...
tl;dr
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