[QUOTE=agnosticspirit;488321]Petofi, it was my beloved free-market capitalism that made the very, very, young county of the United States of America the world power it is today.

It was my beloved free-market capitalism that raised our standards of living to the highest we have ever known in human history.[/QUOTE]

no, it was the laborers who created your wealth who did that. in your more socialized countries, the standard of living is even higher: Iceland, Norway, Australia, Canada, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, Japan, Netherlands, France, and Finland surpass the US. i have some experience with two of those countries, and the liberty of political expression is greater too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Human_Development_Index

[QUOTE=agnosticspirit;488376]But without the capitalists who established the businesses, where would laborers work? :D[/QUOTE]


And without the workers, how would the capitalists make their money?

Workers of the World Unite!

petofi wrote:

And without the workers, how would the capitalists make their money?

petofi, just goes to show you that it shouldn't be workers AGAINST capitalists when both are necessary. :) Corporatocracy and oligarchy are the enemy of the middle class, capitalism is our friend.

newyawka wrote:

in shops they establish themselves!

what a radical idea!!

Ya newyawka dude, when workers establish their own shops, they are then capitalists, yes? :)

[QUOTE=petofi;500474]No.  It's called running a co-op.[/QUOTE]

exactly. however, just to be absolutely clear, there is more than one kind of co-op, and i'm advocating workers' co-ops, not consumers' co-ops.