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Switch to Forum Live View Meet Mr. Tariq Ramadan
6 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2008 - 1:31PM #1
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301
Here's a vision of how Islam may look like in Europe in the near future.

Tariq Ramadan is a professor of Islamic studies, very Western, but without being secular, and advocating a kind of reform Islam that seems to resonate with many European Muslims.

Click here for an in-depth "Der Spiegel" article on the man,
click here for his website, where he regularly posts essays.
tl;dr
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2008 - 2:46PM #2
Agnosticspirit
Posts: 9,244
Thanks for posting that link Chari - it's good to hear and know that there are a few forward thinking islamic leaders and not all of them speak with one voice and hatred for the west.

I do question why secularism is so frightening for some; secularism is the only political system where religious freedom can thrive.
Tribalism, ethnocentricism, racism, nationalism, and FEAR is the Mind Killer... >:(

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6 years ago  ::  May 09, 2008 - 10:49PM #3
stevenlmeyer
Posts: 1,043
For a more balanced perspective on the European Left's current Muslim idol read this New York Times article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/magaz … wanted=all


"In American terms, he [Ramadan] is a Noam Chomsky on foreign policy and a Jerry Falwell on social affairs."

That about sums it up.

The author of the NY Times article is Ian Buruma, Henry R. Luce professor at Bard College and author of  “Murder in Amsterdam: The Death of Theo van Gogh and the Limits of Tolerance.”
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6 years ago  ::  May 10, 2008 - 8:59AM #4
ElCid22
Posts: 1,156
[QUOTE=CharikIeia;455999]Here's a vision of how Islam may look like in Europe in the near future.

Tariq Ramadan is a professor of Islamic studies, very Western, but without being secular, and advocating a kind of reform Islam that seems to resonate with many European Muslims.

Click here for an in-depth "Der Spiegel" article on the man,
click here for his website, where he regularly posts essays.[/QUOTE]

The only solution is for European Christians to rally, and actively resist Islam in Europe, with the specific purpose of eventually driving it out. This is not the time for multi-cultural outreach and understanding. Europeans have a bad habit of not standing up to regional bullies until it's too late.
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6 years ago  ::  May 12, 2008 - 6:01PM #5
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301
Could you please contribute to the topic, Cid?

We know what your message is, but this is on Mr. Ramadan here. What do you think about him?

- -

Steven, thanks for the link and thanks for the laugh!

"For a more balanced perspective on Europe ... read the New York Times!" -- LOL!

Ramadan is far from "the European Left's current Muslim idol", but you're welcome to entertain that stream of consciousness in Melbourne...

Ramadan is a figure that is to be taken serious, THAT is the point. He represents a growing percentage of Muslim youth in Europe, *intelligent*  Muslim youth I dare say. Which is good, very good even, considering the alternative: Saudi-financed Wahabi imams imported from Arabia, or Turkey-financed Hanafite imams imported from Anatolia -- preaching in the absence of experience with life in European societies...
tl;dr
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6 years ago  ::  May 12, 2008 - 8:46PM #6
stevenlmeyer
Posts: 1,043
LOL Chari,

You wrote:

"Ramadan is a figure that is to be taken serious, …. He represents a growing percentage of Muslim youth in Europe,…"

If you mean I have to take Ramadan seriously because he has a large following then you are correct.

For the same reason I have to take John Hagee seriously.

See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDI7pt9KGs4

Hagee too has a large following.

But if you mean I have to take Ramadan seriously because of his intellectual (for want of a better word) output, well, you got to be kidding. Ramadan is a more polished performer than Hagee but under the skin they're two of a kind.
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6 years ago  ::  May 12, 2008 - 9:26PM #7
stevenlmeyer
Posts: 1,043
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6 years ago  ::  May 13, 2008 - 1:41PM #8
Armwar
Posts: 12,019
you wish this to be so, it is obvious, Char...that modern Muslims are not fanatical at heart. 

from the Wikipedia article on this guy:


"....U.S. visa revocation
In February 2004, he accepted the tenured position of Luce professor of religion at the Joan B. Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies, at the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana, U.S.. However, in late July 2004, his visa was revoked by the State Department, and he was forced to resign the position.[8]

In September 2006, a State Department statement said: "A U.S. consular officer has denied Dr. Tariq Ramadan's visa application. The consular officer concluded that Dr. Ramadan was inadmissible based solely on his actions, which constituted providing material support to a terrorist organization."[9][10] Between December 1998 and July 2002, Ramadan had given donations totalling $940 to two charity organizations, the Comité de Bienfaisance et de Secours aux Palestiniens (CBSP) and the Association de Secours Palestinien (ASP).[11] The United States Treasury designated both the CBSP and ASP terrorist fundraising organizations for their alleged links to Hamas on August 22, 2003.[12] The U.S. Embassy told Ramadan that he "reasonably should have known" that the charities provided money to Hamas. In an article in The Washington Post, Ramadan asked: "How should I reasonably have known of their activities before the U.S. government itself knew ?"[13][14][15][16]"


So now that you know that he supports terrorists organizations bent on the destruction of Israel, name Palestinian so and so...with links to Hamas, he expects us to believe that he is incredibly naive...something I actually find impossible to believe...not being THAT naive myself...naive, yes, but not just plain stupid.

Gail
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6 years ago  ::  May 13, 2008 - 1:50PM #9
Armwar
Posts: 12,019
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/P … t.asp?pg=2

You can read everything you need to know to make up your mind right here...just scratch a bit beneath the silky surface to find out what is really going on with this man, son of Said Ramadan, of the Muslim Brotherhood...

Gail
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6 years ago  ::  May 13, 2008 - 6:15PM #10
Erey
Posts: 18,940
Of course Tariq is for the destruction of Israel.  What will the palestinians contribute to this world.

It seems to me all sincere muslims who embrace the spirit of the west don't live in europe - they can't find support there.  They have to live in North America.
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