[FONT="Verdana"]First, we are talking about where people came from originally.
The title of this thread says:[/FONT] Jewish people are the real native people of Israel
[FONT="Verdana"]No, they are not. :)
Avraham (Abraham) is the father of the Jewish people and he came from Mesopotamia --- which is modern day IRAQ[/FONT]
[FONT="Verdana"]We are not talking about the land Abraham bought. We are talking about where he originally came from.
Historically, Arab peoples never lived near the coast, either, for that matter.
They were the people of the desserts -- inland from the coasts.
So, the land that is Israel or Palestine today was never originally Arab or Jewish.
If I am incorrect with this info., someone please feel free to correct me, and I will accept it.[/FONT]
[LIST] [*]As a side note, by the way, I have a heritage name to myself of "Awrajcewicz" (the "w"'s pronounced as "v"'s), so...I am truly not anti-semitic or else I would be anti-my-heritage, which I am not. [/LIST]
I know many of you mean well but let's get back to the real truth of history.
[FONT="Verdana"]Well then, let's get back to your title to this thread, because it's not the real truth, and that would be stating the beginning of their history, which should be stated correctly if we are to proceed further in a correct way, don't you think? If you think it's irrelevant, think again. :)[/FONT]
For 500 years Israel or so-called Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire (Turkish Empire) and before the Jewish people came and bought land in the early 1900's the farm land was way past rotting out. Many Jewish farmers cured the land and made farming possible again. Most every historian has admitted that this is the truth and photos of the area back then prove it. And another things Palestine was a roman name and was named after the Gaza Phillistines who were not Muslim.
[FONT="Verdana"]And? So? What is this suppose to mean? The better farmers should be there?
If that be the case, bring back the Philistines who were doing GREAT!....way back then..... remember the story about the spies that went to spy on the land flowing with milk and honey?...and how they bought back all sorts of yummies? -- big, fat, luscious grapes, too! And they must've been luscious grapes because those Philistines must have been DRUNK off their butts to lose to the Israelites who hadn't even had a horse or a camel in those days.....against big, wide, cavalry Philistines....remember???? those men so big they made the Israelites feel they looked like grasshoppers?????
Yes, the land was filled with very strong and able men and women! who knew how to cultivate their land very well, thank you. It took a Caleb to get there, remember??? [/FONT]
And another things Palestine was a roman name and was named after the Gaza Phillistines who were not Muslim.
[FONT="Verdana"]And do you wonder why that is? Why Gaza Philistines?[/FONT]
In a perfect world if Islamic fundamentalism didn't exist we wouldn't have conflict in Israel and there would be peace.
[FONT="Verdana"]Ah, how touching. Blame it on one ugly side.
In a perfect world ifreligion didn't exist we wouldn't have conflict such as this that's coming from BOTH sides, and there would be peace.......for another generation of all peoples to evolve their minds into an intellect! that was so damn superior to what it is today we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves....we'd be so gloating with happiness!!!! -- and the Earth (our bodies and everything within everything) would be free of it all! so we could all be responsible human beings responsible as human beings, one to another as human beings, with respect to one another because each other was a human being. There is nothing higher in the world than to be......real.[/FONT]
:) God promised the land to the Jews. God who can not lie!
[FONT="Verdana"] No, not "God", but "God of Abraham".
"God" and "God of Abraham" are two separate things!
The Jewish leaders were obeying THAT God -- God of Abraham. It's their OWN story. Nobody else in the whole world has to believe it but them. It's their religious story.[/FONT]
I hope that this poem can be a help in understanding what the Bible says about where Abraham came from.
"From Mesopotamia to Canaan"
[FONT="Verdana"] Yes, there it is. :) Mesopotamia -- modern day Iraq territory.
Thank you for the poem. I've never seen it before, but the story is very familiar to me. [/FONT]
Good answer Dave! (btw, my first car was a Datsun B210) :p
If some posters are to be believed then whoever is presently running a country and living there should get up and move because they were not the original settlers.
I think I brought the whole original land thing up because of the title of this thread...and also...it is important so that people see their clutching hands are ridiculous. "My land! My land!" ridiculousness.
It is a land. People were there, then other people, then other people...
what makes this stupid story different is this religion thing tied into it, and it is ridiculous...because of this! "My land! My land! God gave it to me!"...and then killing????
What kind of religion is that?
It's not even at the level of the beasts. At least they kill to eat what they kill.
It is below the level of beasts...and you know that very well.
And the Law of Moses or even the law of Jesus is about :Thou shall not kill.
What a crock!!
The prez has to pray every day to the Lord.....this Jesus who is not about war, and then debate to tell the world his country is going to war.
Go to war! But don;t pray to Jesus, too....as if! as if you're some Christian!
It's a crock to be mixing these religions, even Islam.....with killing people!
So, it is stupidity at it's highest level.
Why does everybody want Israel? Or is it (really) Jerusalem, that they want?
They want the friggin' WATER, ok?
When the state of Israel was established, they took all the water. Do you understand? Do you GET IT?
You can't very well make great crops of luscious fruits and whathaveyou without the WATER!!!! And that is how the boundaries were set up! Do you understand???
If all of the Jews left Israel today, the world would still taunt them. It is not about the land it is about the Jews!
Well, we'll never know unless they all left, which they will never do because their God told them that's their land. So, those who are religious fanatics of that faith will probably not leave.
When God cries; the world drys and wise men pray for rain!
Yes, give them rain.
Jews are destined by God to occupy Israel. Remove them from the land, and watch the world go up in smoke.
B--do you realize that the Israelis have pushed them up against he sea?
They have NOWHERE to go--not that you'll see the "Israel Can do No Wrong" crowd talking about that nasty little detail.
Anymore than you see them acknowledging that the Wall keeps Palestinians from jobs and families--and FOOD.
That's just a little too "embarrassing" or something.
Second, and far more important and already mentioned on this thread, you will make yourself part of the problem rather than contributing to its peaceful solution.
So go on and keep proving that Israel or the Palestinian Arabs are not legitimate. With your help we may be able to keep this conflict going for another 50 years.
But Habesor, that is the problem -- the legitimacy. The fighting for legitimacy.
Am I right?
And by me stating that neither the Arabs not the Israelites are in true legitimacy, then they ought not to fight for the land as saying it's theirs.
But, then we have the problem of the religions which seem to cause certain ones to think they should kill, murder and maim to get the land.
The legitimacy is falling under the religious teachings! -- what their God tells them to do and how to see others, and it's a very selfish picture going on with very little thoughts for others....
one can't get to the solutions until the real problems are looked at.
To solve a problem is first to fully see the problem that needs to be solved.
The ground belongs to nobody. F**k Britain, Germany, France, and the US. There is no God. There's just you and me. There is no religion. It's a history story. Today is today. You want peace? You're gonna have to work for it. Where do you begin? -- at letting go.
If you think it's anything else, it will never happen. The peace will happen at the "letting go".
PS - There is nothing on my keyboard like the fourt letter in your name. Should I type your name with an a, o, @, or something else?
With an "o" would be fine.
Habesor: The last time I checked with God, there was general silence on what we Israelis are supposed to do.
Habesor, if it's okay with you, may I ask you a question about this? I ask this with respect and with no intentions of ridicule. What was the last thing you heard from your God about what the Israelis are suppose to do? I know from Jewish religious history that usually the last thing said may still be in account.
Habesor: I am Jewish so I think that there is a God beyond human capability to understand. I think that I am responsible for my actions and can't blame them on God. I think that there is a possibility for a solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict that will be arrived at when all sides see that it is in their national interests to work out a peaceful arrangement that we can all live with. The emphasis in that last statement is on the word live.
What I want to ask you, about this, is.....if it weren't for the Islamic extremists, would there be any of this fighting that we see today?
I have to keep my questions simple in this post because it's very easy to get overwhelmed by all of this.....