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6 years ago  ::  Mar 16, 2008 - 12:57AM #71
Creedofcrusades
Posts: 1,571
[QUOTE=JohnQ;358187]Creedofcrusades-

Thanks for your explaination of your thoughts on religioustolerance.com

Do you believe that "traditional Christianity" has changed and evolved over the years?[/QUOTE]

  Your welcome. Christianity has changed in some ways through the years of course. Traditional Christianity isnt unchanging...except in basic doctrine and focus. Traditional Christianity is the fantastic and amazing unity you find in belief from Africa to Asia to North America....from the first century to today.
   I would say "evolve" is a word which doesnt fit traditional christianity in most ways. There is a phrase theologins use called "economy of revelation" which could be seen as evolving beliefs. But only in a very limited manner.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2008 - 10:34AM #72
colossians3_12
Posts: 419

Creedofcrusades wrote:

Actually it appears you created this thread to tar the "religious right" with the biased nonsense of religioustolerance.com regarding some small splinter movement...and it misrepresents their stance even so. But they get their bigoted point across.


This "small splinter movement" is NOT small in its impact. Dominionist theology has been extraordinarily influential in a variety of denominations, specifically the Southern Baptists and the Pentecostals. Its language and major themes can be heard from the pulpits of conservative churches all over the country, but particularly in the South.

How do I know? Well, I've made quite a study of Dominionism, and I've seen it at work first-hand in the Baptist church my large extended family attends. I first recognized its poison at family reunions, in fact, and wondered where my cousins were getting their very odd, militant, and decidedly unBaptist ideas.

Organizations such as Focus on the Family, the Coral Gables ministry, Liberty University, David Barton's Wallbuilders, and many more are infected from top to bottom with Dominionism.

It is a very widespread and very dangerous philosophy. Here is a link you may want to check out:
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/AmericaTheTheocracySugg.html

I have many more articles if anyone is interested. Frederick Clarkson's site www.Talk2Action.org also has a wealth of resources.

Leigh

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2008 - 1:30PM #73
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669
Not everyone who uses Dominionist language or materials are themselves Dominionists; the core group of Rushdooneyites is actually rather small-the rest are just good people who believe that government would be better served by their presence than by their absence (being absent from government being the traditional evengelical/ anabaptistic position)
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2008 - 1:52PM #74
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

colossians3_12 wrote:


Organizations such as Focus on the Family, the Coral Gables ministry, Liberty University, David Barton's Wallbuilders, and many more are infected from top to bottom with Dominionism.

It is a very widespread and very dangerous philosophy. Here is a link you may want to check out:
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/AmericaTheTheocracySugg.html

I have many more articles if anyone is interested. Frederick Clarkson's site www.Talk2Action.org also has a wealth of resources.

Leigh



I also think you are confusing Reconstructionism with Domionism-Domionism calls for Christian Rule-Reconstructionism is more lite and just calls for Bibical principles where applicable.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2008 - 2:57PM #75
Creedofcrusades
Posts: 1,571
[QUOTE=colossians3_12;362292]This "small splinter movement" is NOT small in its impact. Dominionist theology has been extraordinarily influential in a variety of denominations, specifically the Southern Baptists and the Pentecostals. Its language and major themes can be heard from the pulpits of conservative churches all over the country, but particularly in the South.

How do I know? Well, I've made quite a study of Dominionism, and I've seen it at work first-hand in the Baptist church my large extended family attends. I first recognized its poison at family reunions, in fact, and wondered where my cousins were getting their very odd, militant, and decidedly unBaptist ideas.

Organizations such as Focus on the Family, the Coral Gables ministry, Liberty University, David Barton's Wallbuilders, and many more are infected from top to bottom with Dominionism.

It is a very widespread and very dangerous philosophy. Here is a link you may want to check out:
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/AmericaTheTheocracySugg.html

I have many more articles if anyone is interested. Frederick Clarkson's site www.Talk2Action.org also has a wealth of resources.

Leigh[/QUOTE]


  So lets be plain here. The Southern Baptists,  Pentecostals, Focus on the Family, the Coral Gables ministry, Liberty University, David Barton's Wallbuilders and more denomiantions ar enow preaching (1)women should be bought and sold as slaves (2)execution of homosexuals and the adulterous (3)the return of slavery (4)jubilee years where the Indians get their land back?
  Because *that* is what religioustolerance.org and tpaine, claim are the teachings of dominionists. Now either it isnt true and religioustolerance.org has distorted their beliefs, or used the beliefs of a small splinter group to tar a larger group...or they have been remarkably ineffective in getting their message out to all these groups you claim are now preaching dominion theology.
   None of the groups you mention teach anything like that.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2008 - 4:18PM #76
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/AmericaTheTheocracySugg.html

ok, i went to the site and was confimed by what I had thought; by conflating Dominionism and Reconstructionism as the same thing-it lumps everyone together and glosses over the differences as mere denominational differences

Rushdooney was a Dominionist-who wanted to remake America in the Image of the OT's vision of a perfected Israel

Reconstructionists like Bibical principles; but are more concerned about finding men and women of Christian principle that are willing to serve in the public sector
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 17, 2008 - 7:58PM #77
Creedofcrusades
Posts: 1,571
[QUOTE=davelaw40;363209]http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/AmericaTheTheocracySugg.html

ok, i went to the site and was confimed by what I had thought; by conflating Dominionism and Reconstructionism as the same thing-it lumps everyone together and glosses over the differences as mere denominational differences

Rushdooney was a Dominionist-who wanted to remake America in the Image of the OT's vision of a perfected Israel

Reconstructionists like Bibical principles; but are more concerned about finding men and women of Christian principle that are willing to serve in the public sector[/QUOTE]


   As I said...all 12 of these dominionists are working hard to conquer America :) Who knows...maybe the hyperbole does scare up more in donations for religioustolerance.org
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2008 - 1:29AM #78
colossians3_12
Posts: 419

davelaw40 wrote:

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/AmericaTheTheocracySugg.html

ok, i went to the site and was confimed by what I had thought; by conflating Dominionism and Reconstructionism as the same thing-it lumps everyone together and glosses over the differences as mere denominational differences

Rushdooney was a Dominionist-who wanted to remake America in the Image of the OT's vision of a perfected Israel

Reconstructionists like Bibical principles; but are more concerned about finding men and women of Christian principle that are willing to serve in the public sector


I think you have this backwards, Davelaw. Rushdoony was a Reconstructionist, as is his disciple Gary North. The foundation Rushdoony set up, the Chalcedon Foundation, uses this definition, and distinguishes it from Dominionism. There are some theological differences between the two, as this article indicates:
http://www.chalcedon.edu/articles/article.php?ArticleID=2308

I should probably point out, however, that many people use the terms as Davelaw has used them. I myself prefer to use the terminology the Chalcedon Foundation uses.

I don't want to harp on the differences between Dominionism and Reconstructionism, however, because in the major denominations their influences are equivalent.

The simplistic and extreme definition of dominionism used by CofC is not in itself, of course, the influence I'm discussing. Only the most radical of theocrats, for example, Gary North, might be described in that way.

This article (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Dominionism) distinguishes between the two terms and has, to my mind, one of the most telling quotes of all:


Chip Berlet argued in 1996: "Reconstructionism is a theology that argues that only Christian men should rule civil society. It has a softer related theology called dominionism. ... 'Dominionism' in general threatens the Church/State separation so vital to our democracy as a pluralist society. Groups such as the Christian Coalition really have adopted many of the tenets of Dominionism, and some key Christian right leaders are close to Reconstructionism, which thinks that the U.S. Constitution is a sub-document overruled by Old Testament Biblical Laws."

Given that the foremost Evangelical candidate of this election cycle, Mike Huckabee (a Southern Baptist) famously bore out this very contention, I would suggest that the burden of proof is on those who would argue that Dominionism has had no influence.


"Speaking to a not-particularly religious crowd near Detroit on Monday, before the Michigan primary, he [Huckabee] slipped into an argument to amend the Constitution to ban abortion and same-sex marriage, “so it’s in God’s standards, rather than try to change God’s standards.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/19/us/politics/19huckabee.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

But don't take my word for this. Visit the Chalcedon Foundation web site for yourself, or Google "dominionism influence denominations" and read some of the articles. I'd also urge you to visit the Vision America website; Rick Scarborough is the Dominionist with who I am most, and indeed personally, familiar.

Leigh

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2008 - 7:56AM #79
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669
i've heard the terms reversed before as well-


but you are still missing the point if you conflate them-Huckabee suggested a Constitutional admendment-there is no intention to scrap the legal process (and given the complexity of that process it makes the statement nothing more than remeat for the faithful); Rushdooney on the other hand really did advocate a Sovereign theocracy with him and his hand pointed successors as the mouthpieces for the will of God.


HUGE DIFFERENCE
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2008 - 9:50AM #80
Gandalf_Parker
Posts: 1,188
I would be against it ever happening but in all fairness it isnt as if it hasnt worked before. Isnt Tibet trying to return to rule by the Dalai Lama, which most people seem to be in favor of. The Calyphates did quite well for centuries (and would again if allowed). And how old is the Vatican which is considered a religious monarchy with democratic features.
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