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Switch to Forum Live View The Myth Of THe Surge
6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2008 - 4:46PM #31
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848
[QUOTE=mlyons619;329946]

Isn't the fact that Iraqi casualties no longer dominate headlines anymore sufficient proof that al-Qaida and the Insurgency are weakening?
...[/QUOTE]

All that REALLY proves is that the  casualties are no longer being reported.  It may mean there are fewer, it may not.
Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2008 - 4:51PM #32
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,206
[QUOTE=Christianlib;330060]All that REALLY proves is that the  casualties are no longer being reported.  It may mean there are fewer, it may not.[/QUOTE]

Bad news makes the news.  No news is good news.

My son is in Fallujah as a medic.  His area happens to be quiet.
"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2008 - 5:22PM #33
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848
And I respect your son for his service.  I'm just saying that absence of "news" in the US is not evidence of anything in Iraq.  It could simply be evidence of the current admin keeping a lid on things--i.e. how many photos of coffins arriving at Dover do you see?

As to all quiet in Fallujah, that only proves quiet in Fallujah.

I'm simply not trusting of the Liar in Chief, or any of his minions.

What you say MAY be true.  Likewise it may not, based on "headlines."
Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2008 - 5:33PM #34
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,206
[QUOTE=Christianlib;330128]...I'm just saying that absence of "news" in the US is not evidence of anything in Iraq.  It could simply be evidence of the current admin keeping a lid on things--i.e. how many photos of coffins arriving at Dover do you see?[/quote]

A LACK of news from Iraq is indicative of a lack of activity.  I base this on WORLD headlines not just US.  That's one nice thing about Internet access

[QUOTE=Christianlib;330128]...As to all quiet in Fallujah, that only proves quiet in Fallujah...[/quote]

Yup.  That's all it proves.  You DO recall that Fallujah was at one time a hotbed of  Iraqi insurgency

[QUOTE=Christianlib;330128]...I'm simply not trusting of the Liar in Chief, or any of his minions...[/quote]

I don't believe that Worldwide media are counted among the "minions."

[QUOTE=Christianlib;330128]...What you say MAY be true.  Likewise it may not, based on "headlines..."[/QUOTE]

I'd argue that the fact that if there was anything happening, the media would be on it like **** on stink.
"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2008 - 12:17AM #35
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324
Who's fooling who??

Some of us read about plenty of killing going on in Iraq every day.

The lack of news is due to listening/reading MSM brainwash sources.

Yes, BushCo wants iraq on the backburner, it was/is such a fiasco.  But the slaughter drags on.  The refugees refuse to return because it is so dangerous and wasted (millions).

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/03/7421/
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2008 - 2:46AM #36
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,206
[QUOTE=johndavid23;331005]Who's fooling who??...The lack of news is due to listening/reading MSM brainwash sources...[/quote]

MSM of course means mainstream media.  You of course choose to believe the unedited reports despite the fact that too many of the aforementioned "accounts" end up being debunked.

Tell me -- is the BBC a "lackey of the Bush minions?"  Does the Teheran Times cater to USG interests?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7272353.stm

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=164376

"...The sharp rise reverses a six-month trend of fewer casualties, but it is still down from 1,645 civilians killed in February 2007, according to Reuters....The trend of decreasing civilian deaths from violent attacks is being attributed to an increase in US troop numbers, a ceasefire from the Mehdi army Shia militia, and the growth of Sunni Arab neighbourhood security units..."

How about this from the UAE?

http://www.7days.ae/showstory.php?id=68026

"...Despite its sharp rise, the February 2008 figure was still dramatically lower than the 1,645 civilians who died violently in the same month a year ago. A total of 701 civilians were wounded, compared with 2,700 a year ago..."

Nobody's claiming the violence has STOPPED.  And the POLITICAL GOAL of the Surge (the Iraqi Government achieving a certain political unity and stability) has yet to be achieved for all the efforts.  Nonetheless, militarily speaking, the surge is working.
"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2008 - 11:01AM #37
rangerken
Posts: 15,784
Mylons is of course completely right.

Johndavid, are you suggesting that the NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN and MSNBC are actually tools of the Bush administration????? Come on JD, anything that can possibly make the US effort in Iraq look bad those main stream media outlets will trumpet, as will the BBC!

You need to accept that  there are times when the proper use of force just happens to work....or don't accept it...it still works :)

Ken
Conservative, Libertarian, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2008 - 11:26AM #38
arielg
Posts: 9,094
Al-Qaida-in-Iraq is no more part of Iraq than Saudi Arabia. Remember, its deceased leader, al-Zarqawi, was a Jordanian and not an Iraqi. "

AlQaeda was founded as on organization to fight off the western powers colonialist grip on the riches in Arabian lands.  They are in Iraq to help the insurgency get rid of  the invaders who want to control the oil reserves.  They have infinitely more right to be in the area than the Americans.
As an American, I would lose something if they win.  But as someone who believes in freedom and the rights of people not to be dominated by outsiders, I am willing to do without whatever I lose. 

"Also, the ACTS of al-Qaida are hated by Iraqi Sunni and Shiite alike. It is the Sunni leadership in Anbar Province that has helped U.S. forces eliminate al-Qaida's presence there. Attacks HAVE been significantly reduced albeit not entirely eliminated. "

There are a lot of people who hate the Americans also.  The attacks have been reduced for several reason.  I doubt it is because they hate AlQaeda.  That;s what the American media on government would love to believe.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2008 - 11:40AM #39
rangerken
Posts: 15,784
Well, Ariel, my son, who has been there, and who due to his army job regularly interfaces with Iraqis, would strongly disagree with your last sentence.

Be that as it may, anything that weakens, or better still kills members of and supporters of Al Queda I'm all for.

Ken
Conservative, Libertarian, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2008 - 11:54AM #40
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,206
[QUOTE=arielg;331773]...AlQaeda was founded as on organization to fight off the western powers colonialist grip on the riches in Arabian lands.  They are in Iraq to help the insurgency get rid of  the invaders who want to control the oil reserves...[/quote]

So al-Qaida fights to "defend" all Iraqis?  Gee, is that why they primarily target Iraqi civilians?

[QUOTE=arielg;331773]...As an American, I would lose something if they win.  But as someone who believes in freedom and the rights of people not to be dominated by outsiders, I am willing to do without whatever I lose...[/quote]

You consider a bunch of bloodthirsty murderers your kind of "freedom fighters"?  Considering their past performance, would you be willing to do without your LIFE? 

[QUOTE=arielg;331773]...There are a lot of people who hate the Americans also.  The attacks have been reduced for several reason.  I doubt it is because they hate AlQaeda.  That;s what the American media on government would love to believe...[/QUOTE]

There are lotsa folks who hate us for good reasons and bad reasons alike.  Attacks have been reduced for several reasons alright.  Biggest reason is that Iraqis are FINALLY figuring out that al-Qaida-in-Iraq are NO ALLY of the Iraqi people and are doing what they can to help US and Iraqi Government forces destroy them.  That is not a US Government fantasy - that is FACT.
"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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