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Switch to Forum Live View Time is running out for HAMAS and Gaza
6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 1:17PM #1
platoonleader
Posts: 1,148
"Imagine if you will" a group of Mexican miscreants firing homemade rockets filled with scrap-metal upon Laredo, El Paso and parts of the Land of Enchantment New Mexico...because they are still pissed they lost the US/ Mexican War...and can't find a job. I somehow think thousands of crazy armed Texans would "ride off" with their 30-30s off to waste some "greasers".

If you go to the on-line edition of the Jerusalem Post you will see in the top left corner the tally for rockets fired by HAMAS from Gaza on Israel..it is 7582. This deliberate targeting of civilian areas including schools and an empty kindergarten...notwithstanding anything Ms. Munnerlyn can say ...is a war crime.

Moreover NO sovereign state anywhere will tolerate or countenance that sort of thing. Israel or more aptly put, Prime Minister Olmert has resisted the notion or ignored the requirement of a major IDF op in Gaza. That is no longer.

It appears that overtures are being made just as during the Six Day Way in 1967 to Syria to stay out through back channels. This is indeed more evidence that  political critical mass re an invasion  has occurred.

[From the Jerusalem Post] Defense Minister Ehud Barak relayed a message to Syrian President Bashar Assad through the Turkish president that Israel plans to escalate militarily the situation with Hizbullah and Hamas, the London-based newspaper, Al-Hayat, reported on Thursday.

According to the report, Barak encouraged Damascus to take a different stance towards Hizbullah, and emphasized that such a move would be seen as a goodwill gesture, and would open up the possibility for peace negotiations between the two countries.

Further, the report stated that the defense minister informed the Turks that Israel plans to launch a massive military operation in the Gaza Strip. Barak requested that following the campaign, Turkey take part in an international peacekeeping coalition which would ensure the cessation of Kassam rocket fire, the report said. Other members of the potential international force would include troops from Qatar, Malaysia, and Jordan.

Associates of Barak refused to comment on the report, saying only that stories which derive from leaks do not merit responses.

Meanwhile, Kassam rockets continued to hit the western Negev on Thursday, with two landing in open areas near Sderot earlier in the morning.

Nobody was wounded in the attack, and no damage was reported.

Following the rocket strikes, IAF aircraft attacked a Kassam rocket-launching cell in the northern Gaza Strip.

The IDF confirmed hitting the cell, which they said was preparing to launch rockets towards Sderot. It was not immediately known whether anybody was wounded in the attack.  [ Close quote]

Can you hear it? Listen now! The fat lady is singing..."turn out the lights the party is over" Hmmm Dandy Don Meredeth!

oh dear not gagged yet!
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 1:27PM #2
Armwar
Posts: 12,019
Thanks for your stats and your analysis of this.  I think Israel has been remarkably prudent, generous, and even-handed in its responses to continued and unrelenting assault from without.

Gail
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 5:47PM #3
rangerken
Posts: 15,818
I think Isdrael has been more than patient. We'd never put up with what Hamas has been doing out of Gaza.

It will be most interesting to see if what platoonleader posted comes to pass.

If he is right, particularly about an international force made up from Muslim countries that can be depended upon, and Turkey sure can, I'd be all for this.

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 7:00PM #4
platoonleader
Posts: 1,148
What participants here do NOT understand nor care for is: There is a significant constituency of Israelis including Likud and the settler movement and much of SHAS that understand the long term survivabilty of Eretz Israel is depenedent on two things. It being a Jewish State and it including all of what is referred to as biblical Israel...Judea Sameria and Gaza.

Why would Israel spend Israeli lives to liberate Gaza and NOT keep it? There are 1.3 million Gazans...easily bought out, pushed out, and shoved out by Israeli settlement within 5 years.

"Palestinian society" is NON-EXISTANT. Non of the preconditions for the roadmap have been met. There has never in human history been a "palestinian state"...why should there be one now?
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 7:07PM #5
rangerken
Posts: 15,818
Platoonleader, are you in favor of Israel annexing and making part of Israel what is now Gaza and the West Bank? I assume you want Israel to keep the Golan Heights...Israel would be nuts not to do so.

Anyway, please state your position. You'll get a lot of argument naturally, but also some support.

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 8:18PM #6
platoonleader
Posts: 1,148
I thought I had stated my position...ad nauseum. In the course of recorded human history there has NOT been a "palestinian state". Why now? Israel eventually will have all of YESHA. For Israel to be economically secure, strategically secure and be able to be the "bolt hole" for every Jew on the planet....we need it all...and will have it. In my opinion.

From 1949 until the Six Day War Syrian tube artillery, and rocket artillery blasted Israel from the Golan Heights...on a daily basis. IDF took it and now the Golan Heights are a tourist mecca and a significant wine growing region. The Syrians will never get the Golan back, nor can they do anything about it. For Syria the co-relation of forces is adverse in the extreme.

Israelis refer to West Bank as Sameria and Judea. Why give it back? Hell most of it is for sale for the right price. The "palestinians" there are not wanted by King Abdullah in Jordan. There are quotas in every Arab and Gulf State on "palestinian" immigration they are indeed the "tarbabies" of the Middle East.

Israel will never give back a scintilla of Jerusalem. Mosque Al Aqsa the Dome of the Rock...Islam's third Holiest site, was built on the ruins of the Great Temple ..the most Holy site of Judism.

The single most effective means in 100 years Israel or the old Jewish Agency has or had to gain, control and even defend ground was the Moshavim. Kubbutzim and later the settler movement...look at what's happening in "West Bank" and East Jerusalem now? We are merely buying them out.

Why negotiate anything with Mahmoud Abbas or Abu Mazen and the PA? The PA can NOT stop the rockets from falling on Sderot. The PA can NOT release Israeli soldiers. The PA can give nothing, concede nothing or even agree to anything that would or could make peace.

The security wall has effectively isolated the "palestinians" in three economically sterile enclaves where their society has and is breaking down...and it all just keeps shrinking.

In my view the "palestinians" were doomed when Yasser Arafat declined to sign Camp David to much to the chagrin of the Pan Arab Nation.

What we are witnessing is the final last gasps of the "palestinian people" destined to genocide.... because they continued and never ended a sixty year war. Not the first time in human history this has occurred.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 10:39PM #7
rangerken
Posts: 15,818
Thank you platoonleader. Your position is very clear. I know more than a few Jews in my town who agree with you completely. I'm not sure I do but then I do not have the emotional attachment you oibviously do to Israel (NOT a criticism, just a statement of fact). My support for Israel is due to my believing it to be an important ally of the United States and also a bastion of western culture and freedom in the middle east.

I do wonder however if your use of the word genocide in your ending sentence is applicable. There is a pejortative conotation to it and I don't think you mean it in the sense that the Nazis did. Perhaps you should have said, "What we are witnessing is the last gasps of the "palestinian people" destined to dissappear..." In this they would simply join others like the Sumerians, Celts, Magyars, Huns...etc, etc who once were distinct 'tribes' but who have dissappeared from history as unique groups.

I'm not trying to put words into your mouth, but do you see what I'm getting at?

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 10:54PM #8
platoonleader
Posts: 1,148
Two things: "Palestinian" or Arabs living in the former Britsh mandate were never a "homgenious socety". The "Palestinians" for over sixty years built nothing, societal institutions, infrastructure but merely fulminated in refugee camps...and waged unsuccessful war.

Israelis educated their children whilst building a nation and fighting unrelenting warfare. "Palestinians" did not and they are paying the price. They sacrifced their future. Instead sueing for terms and final status discussions when they had a chance to save their society ...they chose not to. Their leaders betrayed them stole their treasure and future.

Again...Arab states do NOT permit "palestinian immigration" and these people are now isolated in small isolated economically enclaves. There are clans killing each other, "security groups" killing each other and their "government" is engaged in "civil war" with themselves.

Whilst you may complain about the word genocide...I think that's exactly what it is and it is entirely self-inflicted
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 10:57PM #9
rangerken
Posts: 15,818
OK. The 'self inflicted' bit is important.

Your outline of historic events continues to be, I think, quite accurate.

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2008 - 11:30PM #10
platoonleader
Posts: 1,148
You are quite right. America and Americans should indeed "count their blessings". You have several stalwart allies. Your Canadian neighbours fight with you. The Brits fight with you, and Israel is the front line in the Middle East.

There are three countries with units that have been awarded US Presidential Unit Citations only one nation has two units with US Presidential Unit Citations ....Canada 2 PPCLI   (Ka Pyong Korea) JTF-2 (Afghanistan)

There is a popular T shirt in Israel right now. An IAF F-16 and under that "Don't worry America...IAF has your back"

I "kinda " liked "When aboslutely, positively has to be destroyed overnight... USAF"

You have brothers...you have allies you have buddies
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