It would be sufficient to Friend!'s case that he could show that there were individuals who believed or, at least, asserted that they were 'ex-gays' who were being discriminated against for religious reasons.
He hasn't been able to do even that.
Thank you amcolph. What is so disgusting to me is the gay and lesbian kids who are so desperate to please their elders, parents, church leaders, teachers and peers, that they will do anything to change their sexual orientation. They are being coerced into trying
[B]barbarous "aversion techniques" designed to "cure" them of homosexuality. Gay men have been shown pictures of naked men and then administered electric shocks through electrodes attached to their testicles, or made to ingest drugs that made them vomit. [/B] [B]Not surprisingly, these brutal, "Clockwork Orange"-like methods proved to be totally ineffective — yielding not one credibly documented case of a "cured" homosexual — and had been discarded by all but lunatic fringe psychotherapists by the late 1970s.[/B]
Friend and the RR continues to give false hope to those kids while ignoring the scientific facts and will lie to make the public think they are being persecuted and denied their rights.
I thought Summer said this topic was not acceptable in the Church and State forum, so why are we discussing it?
"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University,(October 12, 1985)
Friend just continues to believe a lie and wants to foster that lie on everyone else... It ain't gonna happen Friend... persist as you may, but there will always be someone here to tell the TRUTH!
.[/QUOTE]
He need not show that 'ex-gays' actually exist.
It would be sufficient to Friend!'s case that he could show that there were individuals who believed or, at least, asserted that they were 'ex-gays' who were being discriminated against for religious reasons.
He hasn't been able to do even that.
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Well, we could discuss church-state issues concerning discrimination against Martians, too. Oh, wait. Martians don't exist.
Thank you ZenYen, and neither do Ex-Gays... (exist).
"There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of 'reparative conversion therapy' as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation," the American Psychiatric Association has officially stated.
Perhaps the most famous case study in the failure of reparative therapy is that of two founders of Exodus International, Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, who helped start Exodus in 1976 and worked to "convert" gay people for three years, until they fell in love and left Exodus in 1979. In 1982, they held a marriage ceremony and lived together until Cooper died nine years later. "The desires never go away," Bussee said. "After dealing with hundreds of people, I have not met one who went from gay to straight. Even if you manage to alter someone's sexual behavior, you cannot change their true sexual orientation."
Friend just continues to believe a lie and wants to foster that lie on everyone else... It ain't gonna happen Friend... persist as you may, but there will always be someone here to tell the TRUTH!
Well, we could discuss church-state issues concerning discrimination against Martians, too. Oh, wait. Martians don't exist.
I think, Friend, the hangup here is that you are subscribing to a delusion fostered by incredibly bad science and wishful thinking. You are unable to prove that ex-gays even exist, and if they don't exist, they can't be discriminated against.
Secondly, you haven't even provided any examples of discrimination against people who are deluded into thinking they are really are ex-gays. Nor have you found any examples of anyone here who would advocate prejudice or discrimination against ex-gays if they, in fact, existed.
You consistently refuse to discuss the science behind your "ex-gay" blather, and if you did want to discuss the science there are more appropriate threads on BNet to do that.
So ... provide your examples, or find something else to talk about or find a more appropriate forum for your opinions. Until then, it seems you're just looking for excuses to take cheap shots.
[QUOTE=Friend!;779152]I don't want the Church and State BeliefNet forum to be about all church-state issues EXCEPT those church-state issue which apply to discrimination against religious clubs and ministries that help EX-GAYS and help GAYS become heterosexuals.
We don't need to censor this category of church-state issues.[/QUOTE]
Right now, it's an empty category.
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Friend: I am not sure I understand your point here. You want OTHER people to go out and gather the examples of a problem that YOU say exists? Or you want other people to make up hypothetical examples? Sorry. If you want to make your case, gather your examples and make your case. If you can't do that, then ... what's the point?
What would you agree is a constitutional church-state issue involving EX-HOMOSEXUALS? Let us consider what your definition would be so we can agree upon whether examples exist.
If church-state violations related to bias against EX-HOMOSEXUALS can be found, then it seems fair to discuss them.
Likewise we can discuss church-state issues of unlawful bias against religious ministries or religious public school clubs based upon their beliefs about homosexuality.
And yet you can't show us any bias. I can show you bias against homosexuals all day every day, and yet you can't prove the same for folks who are no longer gay. :rolleyes:
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.
[QUOTE=Friend!;778443]Apparently you're unclear on the concept that this IS the appropriate board for discussing the church-state issue of equal access for religious clubs in public schools that are deprived of their civil rights due to their views on ex-homosexuals.
I personally agreed not to discuss homosexuality per se. I am quite capable of discussing the church-state issues involved without discussing homosexuality per se.
If anyone, however, wants to discuss homosexuality per se, one will need to take it to an appropriate forum. This is not that forum.
I prefer to discuss the church-state issues involved in freedom of exclusion, freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly. Unless you can show that such a church-state discussion is somehow a discussion of homosexuality, then I am prepareed to discuss the church-state issues. I will abide by whatever decision you make.[/QUOTE]Friend, are you an "ex-gay?"
And honestly, I have to agree with Summer and SG here. You keep bringing these threads, and yet you've never shown us any occasion where these church-state issues with ex-gays have come up. Come on over to the gay sections. We'll show you what's what.
Apparently you're unclear on the concept that this IS the appropriate board for discussing the church-state issue of equal access for religious clubs in public schools that are persecuted for their views on ex-homosexuals.
I personally agreed not to discuss homosexuality per se. I am quite capable of discussion the church-state issues involved without discussing homosexuality per se.
If you, however, wish to discuss homosexuality per se, you will need to take it to an appropriate forum. This is not that forum.
I prefer to discuss the church-state issues involved in freedom of exclusion, freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly. Unless you can show that such a church-state discussion is somehow a discussion of homosexuality, then I am prepareed to discuss the church-state issues. I will abide by whatever decision you make.
You still haven't shown that there is an issue at all. Until you can, take it one of the many homosexual boards we have here. :rolleyes:
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.
