Joseph  B O

Federalism IS outdated!  But you again fail to understand the constitution.  In Art II, sec 8 it clearly states that taxes are to be levied to pay the debts, have adequate defense  AND PROVIDE FOR THE GENERAL WELFARE.  That is mandated.  And in the language of that time, general welfare was a term that covered many things: health, educastion, roads, etc  It was well recognized that some states were poorer than other states and would need help in their meeting the needs of the people.  Our gov't  was not intended to be the limited government you conservatives want it to be.  When large groups of people do not have minimum health care, that affects the whole country.  And the implied powers clause intended all powers of the government to be interpreted loosely.  No amendment countered that.  For the only amendment "relevant" to the issue said that pworers not delegated were not delegated.  But broad powers were delegated!

In the civil rights era, there was vigorous opposition to integrated schools, but not to integrated hospitals.  Employers needed healthy workers, and epidemics needed to be stopped.  Result: Hil Burton act , providing money for hospital construction.  All perfectly constitutional.  We are now again at a crossroads, as many companies are denying health coverage to their employees.  At the minimum we need to embark on a program I outlined in post 4.

We have all heard this before,the creeping socialism slippery slope with the commie adhoms,but most of us remember the story of the depression and how the free market bankrupted the nation. FDR already turned us into a "socialist" country long ago and we did alright,beat the NAZI's ,rebuilt Europe and landed on the moon ya know and never racked up the debts like the conservatives have.  These very debts they run up are the reason they say we must not elect liberals because they will raise taxes to pay the debt. This is the same thing they are saying about health care while our costs skyrocket out of control,they will make you pay for it. Were OK with that.

NOparking make the killer point about health insurance being taken fom your paycheck. Thats the American dream,there are people lying awake dreaming of being so lucky. Everyone should be so lucky! Thats the problem people are being denied insurance  and they still get sick and the cost is passed on to those with insurance making it more expensive so less have it etc. The system is DOOMED! The radical counterrevolutionaries that want to take us back to the robber baron days hope we have forgotten how we had a high standard of living until this conservative propaganda started pretending its the past and socialism is a scary future.


Most people want universal healthcare so the socialist slam doesnt make people feel like some lone freak anymore. There is no defense for the current system other than sloganeering and adhoms.If you have insurance,you still get ruined financially while those with no insurance get free care. Your insurance company may decide to let you die,they do that to save money. How can you defend that?

[QUOTE=JosephBaileyOne;263410]This "outdated concept of Federalism" is the foundation of American society.  Get any number of history books or books on the Constitution and you would know that as well as all of the mouth that the liberal's in this nation go on about, were they to frame their argument about the real issue, then they would win their arguments.  Furthermore, I wonder if every soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine or anyone else who believes in the American Constitution, shares your view of how outdated it is?  Also, if you knew anything and I mean anything, about the history of this nation and its Constitution, you would see that your rant about "conservative mumbo jumbo" is so far off the mark as to not even be funny.  Additionally, you can take your love of socialism and go live in a socialist nation,  where you can rant all you want about America's outdated concept of federalism.  There is more to the healthcare issue than the liberal chant of death for federalism and it is important for whether or not any taxpayer has to shell out their HARD EARNED INCOME because some federal politician gets a program through that breaks the financial back of this nation.  Every last bit of the universal healthcare issue comes down to a point about federalism so spare me the diatribe of all those without coverage, as liberal's do, to obfusicate the issue.[/QUOTE]

If we are talking about health care, how can you claim that people without health care are an obfuscation of the issue and refer to the concern as a diatribe.
You seem not to be aware that the employer financed private health care system is already breaking the financial back of this nation and is in the process of failing. Individual health care plans are the worst possible way to provide health care are more expensive than group plans.  THis is why the ranks of the uninsured are increasing.

We already have an accepted federal government support for the poor, children and the elderly.
It is not great stretch to extend coverage to all. Or maybe you prefer to have the supreme court call medicare, medicaid and SCHIP programs unconstitutional because if usurps powers that belong to the state. I guess if we have a real conservative in the presidency, maybe you are hoping  we can get some Supreme Court Judges who will really kick some ass in that area.

It is pretty clear that when conservatives have no good answer to the failure of the US health care system, that is recognized by most Americans, large employers and Health Care Professionals, they try to obfuscate their lack of a solution by ranting about socialism and federalism and other conservative hot button issues, as if they were a mantra that would make the problems disappear. That is the reason that the people of the US are in the process of rejecting the sort of knee jerk conservatism that your comments represent. That includes your  "America love it or leave it" slogan, which is a kind of jingoistic McCarthyism.

TENAC,

Our government may be in huge debt, and a large fraction of our currency and assets may be held by foreigners, but based on GDP we are still the world's wealthiest nation, and close to the highest GDP on a per capita basis.

Since many here agree with Hillary's health care plan I'll ask you to find me the information that I need?

Will she make sure the costs of insurance go down so that people will want to have their wages garnished or whatever else she is calling it ?  Will everybody's taxes be increased to pay for the uninsured?    How is she going to insure that the insurance companies and drug companies and everyone else who stands to profit  from her plan won't raise their costs and pass them along to all of us? 

As long as the business is still in providing health care how can we be sure that her plan is workable?  Businesses do work for profit don't they?

My point is it's easy for her to say universal health care and mandate it but if she is just adding the uninsured to the ranks of employers and private people who are currently purchasing it how is that going to make it cheap enough to provide?

And finally, how much do you think a person who is trying to make ends meet already is willing to pay for this new mandated health care and do you think  the final cost of this plan will be anywhere near this price?