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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 3:13PM #1
stitch813
Posts: 5,519
Hillary Clinton left open the possibility of garnishing wages to pay for universal health care.  I think that is the point made by Barack Obama several times in different debates, but of course then Hillary didn't answer the question.  What do you think of garnishing wages to force people to get healthcare?

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=4235448&page=1

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., this morning left open the possibility that, if elected, her government would garnish the wages of people who didn't comply with her health care plan. "We will have an enforcement mechanism, whether it's that or it's some other mechanism through the tax system or automatic enrollments," Clinton said in an appearance on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos".

Clinton went on to say, though, that such mechanisms would not include penalties. "They don't have to pay fines … We want them to have insurance. We want it to be affordable. And what I have said is that there are a number of ways of doing that. Now, there's not just one way of getting to that."
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 3:26PM #2
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158
I have mixed feelings about the Health care problem. I have posted before that I THINK, that some kind of CO-OP could be formed, everyone pays but a not for profit insurance consortium administers it. It works for SGLI/VGLI, life insurance for soldiers and veterans.  Our health care system is good but not available to many citizens.    Good health care is expensive.  MY recent heart  attack cost more than the average cost of a house in my city but the price was worth it all things considered.   The solution is not simple, easy, cheap but we need to address it in a rational way and the USERS have to pay not the government.
“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 3:46PM #3
petofi
Posts: 1,690
Garnashing people's wages for health-care?  Why don't they just look North of the border and follow Canada's example?  If that's the best Hillary or Obama can do, I will be voting Green for president.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 4:01PM #4
exsem
Posts: 423
I am a strong believer in a universal government single payer health care system---but NOT YET.  We do not have enough doctors, nurses, emergency rooms, or operating rooms to handle more patients than we have today.  And it would take a decade to remedy this. 

What we can do is pay more of the tuition of doctors and nurses in training, and pay for varius types of preventive medicine: innoculations, x-rays, blood tests, etc that will in the long run actually lower the cost of health care.

We must be realistic!
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 6:12PM #5
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,020
What about the UN-waged???

Surely health care is (or should be) a basic human right.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 6:25PM #6
AintKatie
Posts: 1,657

Do_unto_others wrote:

What about the UN-waged???  Surely health care is (or should be) a basic human right.



In your dreams. That's not how things work in this country. You get what you pay for. And if you can't pay for it, you don't get it.

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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 7:30PM #7
eadler
Posts: 4,449
This seems like a bizarre discussion to me.
So few of the posters seem to get it.
Instead of looking at the total picture, people are being distracted by superficial issues in the question of how to provide health care.

We are the richest nation on earth. We pay more for health care as a percentage of GDP than any other country on earth
by far.

Despite this, we have a 47M people uninsured and many more millions underinsured. Health care costs are the most frequent reasons for bankruptcy.
Health care costs are so high without creating a more healthy population.

There is an excess of technology and medication use, which in many cases contributes very little to health and well being. This is driven by the for profit system.

There are many examples that can be cited. Among them,
Statins are way overused. In excess of 100 patients have to be treated at a cost of 1000/year, for one heart attack to be averted over a 3 1/2 year period in a high risk group. It is costing $13B/ year for statins in the US, and many are taking them who don't need them.
Most prostate cancers are benign and do not need treatment.
It is known that prostate cancer is way overtreated in the US and many patients are harmed by the unnecessary treatments.

New types of Xray machines are being installed at 100M a piece and are going to be used for purposes for which they are not essential, because health facilities want to advertise the latest and greatest.

If we reformed health care, our costs would go down, health would improve for those who are covered, and we would have enough money to cover everyone. It isn't rocket science. Every developed country in the world except the US has universal health insurance, and most have single payer. The health of their people is as good as or better than the people of the US.

As it is, in the US,  people, who are insured, are paying a hidden tax, due to cost shifting , which is needed  to pay providers, for acute care, for the uninsured, not covered by government payments. This is paid for in part by employers, and their employees, as well as the few who have private insurance, because the medical system gets them to pay that which government payments do not cover. The money is being spent  on acute care only, and not on preventive care where it would do the most good.

The for profit system does not deliver good and cost effective health care. The providers have the market power and the information, and few consumers know enough to choose the right and most cost effective treatments for themselves. That is why health care is an example of free market failure.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 7:50PM #8
stitch813
Posts: 5,519
Thanks for all the thoughtful answers.  I am kind of disheartened that she never gave this answer before.  I mean she berated Obama for not making it mandatory and never answered that she'd garnish people's wages when asked what she would do if they didn't want to purchase it.  When government gets into garnishing your pay check for health insurance it is basically forcing you to get it and FORCING you to pay for it.  There has to be a better way.  I think that way is Obama's idea.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 9:02PM #9
eadler
Posts: 4,449
[QUOTE=stitch813;262336]Thanks for all the thoughtful answers.  I am kind of disheartened that she never gave this answer before.  I mean she berated Obama for not making it mandatory and never answered that she'd garnish people's wages when asked what she would do if they didn't want to purchase it.  When government gets into garnishing your pay check for health insurance it is basically forcing you to get it and FORCING you to pay for it.  There has to be a better way.  I think that way is Obama's idea.[/QUOTE]

If you allow people to go uninsured, and they get so sick that they have to go bankrupt, will they go without acutely needed health care, or will the taxpayers pay for their care anyway?
If the taxpayers will pay, does it make sense to allow them to go uninsured because they won't pay their fair share and then have the taxpayers pick up the tab when some of them inevitably get seriously ill?  Is that truly a better way?

It is truly sad that with all of the debates that we have had, this issue has not been discussed in a meaningful way.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 03, 2008 - 9:21PM #10
stitch813
Posts: 5,519
Eadler your point is well taken but it is also true that after all those debates Hillary said she couldn't rule out garnishing one's wages.  Why didn't she say that at a debate?  Because then someone could point it out and discuss it.  She didn't want a discussion of how she was going to enact her health plan she just wanted people to know it was universal.  She makes me very cynical
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