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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 12:52PM #31
L.Ann
Posts: 501
Originally Posted by CharikIeia 
I think the very idea to play tough with Russia is doomed to fail,
it will only strengthen Putin's status in his own country.

America should concentrate on its own sphere of influence, and not encourage egomaniac leaders to play games of chance with their civil society. The signs of "you rock, man, go ahead" given by Rice and Bush to Saakashvili are directly responsible for the current situation.



[QUOTE=L.Ann;708703]1. 3.  America's sphere of influence just happens to be a U.S. backed Georgia!  The committment of the U.S. is true and obvious toward it's allies with specific democratic principle:  Democratic values are characterized by free and equal participation in government or in the decision-making processes of an organization or group. It is not dictatorship....

  Perhaps  the world should just submit to greater powers  and not defend any form of free-society and values in established democratic Countries....According to your philosophy,  It would be much easier for the aggressor to just take-over what it wants...I believe this type of civil society would be considered a Marxist-Leninist classless society in which capitalism is overthrown by a working-class revolution that gives ownership and control of wealth and property to the state.  Is this Russia's aim to control the economic flow of goods and services in Georgia by occupation of strategic points of interest?  I do not support any form of Communism.....[/QUOTE]


I probably should have said "Sorry" before I  wrote this Char.....
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 1:46PM #32
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,303
:) not if you don't mean it :)
tl;dr
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6 years ago  ::  Aug 22, 2008 - 9:32PM #33
dearwatson
Posts: 168
It needs to be granted that countries just might do things for more reasons than economics or natural resources.  They might act out of ideology, or egoism, or simply having a diplomatic or military corps that likes power politics.

When the Russian response to the meeting of NATO ministers is that "the mountain gave birth to a mouse,"   that doesn't lend much creedence to the 'isolate Russia = weaker Russia' equasion pushed by the paste eaters in the State Department.  If we can not appreciate that the Russian desire for respect and national security (particularly along the Caucusus) we certainly can't gauge how a successful demonstration of power strengthens the Russian leadership in the eyes of their people.

While it isn't in the interest of developed democracies to see nascent democracies in the former Soviet sphere to become the objects of aggression by stronger powers,  it really isn't in the interest of the West to have leadership of allies that are prone to provoke such aggression.  That Russia might just have seen an element of payback against humiliations - real or imagined - by acting as they did in Georgia shouldn't be shocking.   America could just have easily taken a policy in Georgia that was complimentary and supportive of democratic development and civil society along with bringing Russia along as a partner and reconciler instead of having a policy that was dictatorial about what the status and disposition of interests should be.

I still don't see how the Falklands analogy is wrong: some substantial damage was done by the forces of a country claiming territorial rights from an imperial power initially, and then later and dramatically reversed.  I suppose one could make a comparrison to the British-Egyptian adventures in the Sudan as well, but there are too many divergent factors.
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