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Switch to Forum Live View Founding Fathers Religion
9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 5:25PM #1
JohnQ
Posts: 5,851
There have been numerous threads on this board suggesting that the founding fathers were all Christians.

So, what?  Even if they were all Christians* what would that have to do with anything except history?  What would that have to do with our great nation today?






*personally, I don't think this to be the case...but, that is a different discussion
Peace!                 
------

Christian LIES wed Christian HATE......Begot a child....it’s named Prop 8! 

Supreme Court let it stand.....which means we can vote away the rights of others in our land.

Sad as that may be...it hurts all of us.....not just me.
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 6:07PM #2
ZenYen
Posts: 447
The "Christian Founding Fathers" stuff is nonsense, of course, as any reading of their letters and other writings will amply demonstrate.

If it were true, however, it would not change the Constitution by one jot. What matters, in weighing Constitutional matters, is the secular document the Founding Fathers actually produced — whatever their personal religious beliefs might have been.

This does not prevent Fundie revisionists, however, from continually trying to tell us all what the Founders "intended" and insist that secular humanists have "interpreted" the Constitution to be something other than what the Founders "meant" to set up.
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 6:43PM #3
Vistronic
Posts: 1,838
Hello,
Foundations are revelatory.
From the Columbus journey onward the advancement and foundation of religion is apparent.

It is unfortunate that the religion of the day did not recognize (in general) the genocide of native people in the western advance of "manifest destiny." (even before that name is applied)
If a Christian is to rape murder and pillage and let loose the dogs of war, I wonder the term is correct...
though it appears the holy one can speak through a Jack Ass if needed.
but I digress as we must now advance from Columbus to the DOI time-frame.

There can be little skepticism that George Washington appears to be directed or watched over by the divine.... At least the historic record and his own words speak to that end.

This is important because if indeed the hand of providence was involved, and I believe it was, it behooves us to recognize this and give credit where due.

P.S.
Yes a fair amount of screwed up stuff still happened. Yet the Civil war seemed atonement if not absolution.

Vis.
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 9:40PM #4
ZenYen
Posts: 447
Um, there can be plenty of skepticism about whether George Washington was directed or watched over by the divine.

As for foundations being revelatory ... I have no way of reading the minds of men long dead. All I can read is the remarkably secular Constitution they wrote. They were obviously intelligent human beings, and if they had intended this to be a Christian nation, they were abundantly talented enough and smart enough to have made that intention crystal clear. The very fact that they didn't expressly set up a Christian nation speaks volumes.
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 9:54PM #5
Vistronic
Posts: 1,838
The majority of people in this nation are Christian.

U.S. Religious Affiliation, 2002
[SIZE=+1](self-identification, Pew Research Council)[/SIZE]

82% Christian
_____________________________________________________________

List of Presidential religious affiliations (by religion) from wiki

Baptist
Warren Harding
Harry Truman
Jimmy Carter (Southern Baptist) (after serving as president, Carter broke with the SBC over its stand on the submission of women)
Bill Clinton (Southern Baptist)
Roman Catholic
John F. Kennedy
Congregationalist
Calvin Coolidge
Disciples of Christ
James Garfield
Lyndon Johnson
Ronald Reagan
Dutch Reformed
Martin Van Buren
Theodore Roosevelt
Episcopal
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson (sympathetic to Unitarianism and Deism)
James Madison [also Deist]
James Monroe [possibly Deist]
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
Zachary Taylor
Franklin Pierce
Chester A. Arthur
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Gerald Ford
George H. W. Bush
Methodist
James Polk (originally Presbyterian)
Ulysses Grant (allegedly; his theology is unknown)
William McKinley
George W. Bush (originally Episcopal)
Presbyterian
Andrew Jackson
James Polk (later Methodist)
James Buchanan
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
Woodrow Wilson
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Quaker
Herbert Hoover
Richard Nixon
No denominational affiliation
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses Grant
Rutherford Hayes
Deist
Thomas Jefferson (sympathetic to Unitarianism)
James Madison (fraternized Episcopal)
James Monroe (disputed)
Abraham Lincoln (disputed)
Unitarian
John Adams
John Quincy Adams
Millard Fillmore
William Howard Taft
Disputed
James Monroe
Martin Van Buren
Zachary Taylor
Abraham Lincoln
Ulysses Grant


Majority Christian
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 10:06PM #6
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496
And?    :confused:
Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 10:20PM #7
ZenYen
Posts: 447
Vis: Your list doesn't really address my point.
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 11:29PM #8
TPaine
Posts: 10,308
Nice list, Vis. It's somewhat inaccurate but not in any important way. The trouble is it doesn't matter what sects our Presidents belong to, if any. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and the Constitution is a totally secular document.
FYI, Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, and John Q Adams were all Unitarians in belief if not in church membership.
"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture."-- Thomas Paine: The Crisis No. V (March 21, 1778)
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2008 - 7:47AM #9
amcolph
Posts: 20,246
And how many of those "Christians" would you acknowledge under other circumstances?

When you "Christian Nation" folks want to prove a majority you include everybody.  Otherwise, only 'Bible-believing' Christians are counted as real Christians.

The rest of us are 'new age liberals' or slaves to the Whore of Babylon, or subscribe to the 'error-ridden and satanic' Nicene Creed or otherwise fail to agree to some tenet of Fundygelical doctrine and so disqualify ourselves from salvation.

You can't have it both ways.
This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
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9 years ago  ::  Jul 24, 2008 - 9:20AM #10
JohnQ
Posts: 5,851
Okay, so many/most or our founding fathers were Christian.  So what?  What does that have to do with anything besides interesting history?*

Okay, so most US citizens identify as Christian.  So what?  There is a huge difference between being a Christian Nation and being a Nation of mostly Christians.**

Okay, so most of our past presidents were Christians.  So what? 

*BTW, they are all dead and gone.

**IMO, it is not my place to judge who is and who is not....Christian.  But, as already noted...there certainly are a lot of fundamentalist Christians who do usually exclude many of the rest of us.
Peace!                 
------

Christian LIES wed Christian HATE......Begot a child....it’s named Prop 8! 

Supreme Court let it stand.....which means we can vote away the rights of others in our land.

Sad as that may be...it hurts all of us.....not just me.
Quick Reply
Cancel
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