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Switch to Forum Live View U.S. Established as a White Nation
6 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2007 - 10:58AM #1
TheWallflower
TheWallflower
Posts: 125
Dan Barker proposed this thought experiment:

Imagine Mr. Smith is running for president.  He declares that the Constitution establishes the US as a white nation.  After all, the original colonists were all white.  The members of the constitutional convention were white.  The values and ideas ensconced in the Constitution developed in a white culture.  Most Americans today are white. 

Smith not only will lose the election, he'll never be able to show his face in public again. 

Why?  He has supporting facts, doesn't he?  But it's neo-Nazi rhetoric.  Saying the U.S. is a white nation is bigoted because it excludes and implies inferiority of nonwhites. 

Recently, John McCain declared that the Constitution establishes the US as a Christian nation.  Go back and read the white nation argument, but replace the word "white" with "Christian."  (The only flaw is that many convention members were deists, but they were still greatly influenced by Christianity.)

BTW, no where do the words "Christian" or "God" appear in the Constitution, although it does stipulate no religious test for holding public office or public trust, as well as no establishment of religion, and freedom of religion.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2007 - 3:54PM #2
CharikIeia
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,303
Thought experiments are not everyone's talent.

Those who are able to entertain them typically won't need to be convinced of the absurdity
of the position that is criticised.

But it IS a nice try :)
tl;dr
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 04, 2007 - 12:08AM #3
nicoletate
nicoletate
Posts: 3,398
America, a white nation, yea right. But if he were running for president, I would get a big laugh out of him trying to use that in his campaign, he would look like a real idiot.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2007 - 4:34PM #4
Wulf
Wulf
Posts: 109
this to be a Christian nation you would think they would have put something into the constitution declaring that rather than a statement with the opposite meaning.  Jefferson was a Deist and Adams a Unitarian significantly lowering the Christion / Non-christian ration of the founders.
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 21, 2007 - 11:07PM #5
CityZen_X
CityZen_X
Posts: 2,465
That is a pretty frightening scenerio, seeing that "white" people have caused more death and destruction on this planet than any other race.
And they are a late entry into the evolution picture also. You might say a bastard minority.

By the way, I am white on the outside.
To "choose" dogma and faith over doubt and experiment is to throw out the ripening vintage and to reach greedily for the Kool-Aid."

Christopher Hitchens

The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.
  - Sir Richard Francis Burton
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 22, 2007 - 2:48AM #6
mnwillems
mnwillems
Posts: 53
[QUOTE=TheWallflower;109771]BTW, no where do the words "Christian" or "God" appear in the Constitution, although it does stipulate no religious test for holding public office or public trust, as well as no establishment of religion, and freedom of religion.[/QUOTE]

Quite correct, but in the Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." At the very least this indicates belief in a "Creator."

Nether Deism nor Unitarianism deny the existence of God.
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 22, 2007 - 2:55AM #7
mnwillems
mnwillems
Posts: 53
[QUOTE=CityZen_X;157445]"white" people have caused more death and destruction on this planet than any other race.[/QUOTE]

Before you start making these kinds of assertions, take a look at the amount of pollution generated by such countries as China, Russia, Mexico, and Japan. Last time I checked only Russia might be considered predominantly "white." (though I'm not too sure they would agree)
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 22, 2007 - 2:28PM #8
Summer813
Summer813
Posts: 325

mnwillems wrote:

Quite correct, but in the Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." At the very least this indicates belief in a "Creator."

Nether Deism nor Unitarianism deny the existence of God.


So in your mind, "not denying the existence of God" = "Christian"?

Um, no, And in any case, the fact that a line in the DoC indicates a belief in a Creator on the part of the person who wrote it in no way means that this is a Christian, or even a religious, nation.

Shared pain is lessened, shared joy increased. Thus do we refute entropy. - Mike Callahan, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2007 - 2:25AM #9
MasterOfSparks
MasterOfSparks
Posts: 3,166
Of course America was founded on Christian values. The first thing they did was murder the rightful owners of the land. Then they enslaved Africans to do the hard work. Those are clearly Christian values.

The thing I find most irritating about conservatives isn't just that their opinions so rarely have any basis in reality. It's not even their incessant refusal to change those opinions when presented with irrefutable facts and logic. But rather it's their complete bewilderment that anyone else might think they should.

---------------------------------------------------------

There's nothing at all new about the venomous anti-Obama sentiment coming from the right. Its just what happens when an effective and popular Democrat leads the country in a positive direction. Kennedy and Johnson had the John Birch Society. Carter and Clinton had their lunatic detractors. What has changed, however, is that the Birchers and Clinton Death List crowd used to be the extreme fringe and the GOP saw them as an embarrassment. Now the crazies are the top GOP leadership and only a few Republicans are calling for sanity. Why? Because Republicans have no ideas and nothing else to sell.
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 30, 2007 - 5:53PM #10
Summer813
Summer813
Posts: 325
Hardly. Those were the bullshit values engendered by imperialistic regimes the world over, and the U.S. is, after all, descended from such a culture - remember that we began as a colony outpost of the British Empire.

So it's hardly surprising that we would carry over the values of that empire. Regrettable, but not surprising. Either way, though, you can't really classify them as religious values. Religion has often been used as a tool of empire, but the tool is not in control of what its user does.
Shared pain is lessened, shared joy increased. Thus do we refute entropy. - Mike Callahan, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon
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