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Switch to Forum Live View U.S. Established as a White Nation
7 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 8:01PM #41
faith713
Posts: 3,892
"So- by attempting to circumvent the first Amendment and establish Christianity as a national religion dominant above others, do those who believe this ought to be a Christian nation qualify as needing to be restrained?"

They were against the establishment of any one particular form of Christianity but the founders did use the general principles of Christianity as a foundation along with the bible.

The Establishment clause says that "Congress shall make no law establishing a religion or interfering with the free exercise thereof. " That's the clause that all of this has come from. There is nothing in there about separation of church and state. So the Congress should not and must not establish a denomination.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 8:32PM #42
faith713
Posts: 3,892
"just because they capitalized a proper noun does not mean it was the christian god they were referring to."


If their diety wasn't the God of the bible then why was the Liberty Bell inscribed with a biblical verse from Leviticus 25:10 which says, "Proclaim Liberty Throughout All the Land Unto All the Inhabitants."?

If God is supposed to be separated from the state then why are depictions of Moses in the Supreme court and in the chambers of the House of Representatives?
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 10:17PM #43
mountain_man
Posts: 39,400

faith713 wrote:

"just because they capitalized a proper noun does not mean it was the christian god they were referring to."


If their diety wasn't the God of the bible then why was the Liberty Bell inscribed with a biblical verse from Leviticus 25:10 which says, "Proclaim Liberty Throughout All the Land Unto All the Inhabitants."?


You're getting desperate, aren't you. Our laws and customs are not established by what is written on a bell that was so poorly made it cracked.

If God is supposed to be separated from the state then why are depictions of Moses in the Supreme court and in the chambers of the House of Representatives?


Why are the "lawgivers" from other cultures there too? Does that mean they also believed in Zeus?

Come on. Your arguments are going to work. Look at the one document that establishes the laws of this land. The bible and bible gods are conspicuously absent from that document.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 4:17PM #44
faith713
Posts: 3,892
"You're getting desperate, aren't you. Our laws and customs are not established by what is written on a bell that was so poorly made it cracked"

What does the condition of the liberty bell have anything to do with why a scripture of the bible was written on it? Now who's getting desperate?
Our laws were founded on the Ten Commandments from the bible.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 5:05PM #45
mountain_man
Posts: 39,400

faith713 wrote:

"You're getting desperate, aren't you. Our laws and customs are not established by what is written on a bell that was so poorly made it cracked"

What does the condition of the liberty bell have anything to do with why a scripture of the bible was written on it?


It means as much as what is written on it - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! :D

Now who's getting desperate?
Our laws were founded on the Ten Commandments from the bible.


Then where in the Constitution are they mentioned? Where in our Constitution or laws is anything that is found ONLY in those so called "ten commandments" that is not found anywhere else?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 5:09PM #46
JohnQ
Posts: 5,638

faith713 wrote:


They were against the establishment of any one particular form of Christianity but the founders did use the general principles of Christianity as a foundation along with the bible.




First, are you trying to suggest that only Christianity embraces such principles such as those outlined in the Ten Commandments and the Bible?

Second, you do realize that Christians took the the OT from the Jews...don't you?   The OT is basically the Tanakh.

Third, if the bible to which you refer is the Bible that is the sacred scriptures of Christians and Jews....then, you should be capitalizing the word: Bible.

Peace!                 
------

Christian LIES wed Christian HATE......Begot a child....it’s named Prop 8! 

Supreme Court let it stand.....which means we can vote away the rights of others in our land.

Sad as that may be...it hurts all of us.....not just me.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 5:12PM #47
JohnQ
Posts: 5,638

faith713 wrote:



Can you provide proof?

Peace!                 
------

Christian LIES wed Christian HATE......Begot a child....it’s named Prop 8! 

Supreme Court let it stand.....which means we can vote away the rights of others in our land.

Sad as that may be...it hurts all of us.....not just me.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 7:07PM #48
faith713
Posts: 3,892
In the U.S. Supreme Court, theTen Commandments are etched in marble between “The Majesty of the Law” to the left and “The Power of Government” to the right, by sculptor Adolph A. Weinman.



"Third, if the bible to which you refer is the Bible that is the sacred scriptures of Christians and Jews....then, you should be capitalizing the word: Bible."

Good eye, I'll try to be more careful next time.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 9:15PM #49
mountain_man
Posts: 39,400

faith713 wrote:

In the U.S. Supreme Court,......


Again, not part of our laws.

Got anything in the law? Or is all you have a bunch of meaningless side arguments?

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 11:24PM #50
faith713
Posts: 3,892
Got anything in the law? Or is all you have a bunch of meaningless side arguments?

Then why are the Ten Commandments depicted all over the Supreme Court, the Library of Congress and on the floors of the National Archives --it's far from meaningless.

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of the government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God." -- James Madison, 1778
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."--John14:6

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.-- John 3:16

"We love Him because He first loved us."--1 John 4:9-10

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear ... "
1 John 4:18
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