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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 1:06PM #1
Erey
Posts: 19,141
We have interesting things in the news lately regarding Islamism.

We already have several threads devoted to the rape victim and now today the hot issue is the teddy bear.  I assume you all are familiar with the subject.

So the lady gets about two weeks in jail and deported.  You all have to agree that the only reason her sentance was so light is because she is british.  Had she been a Sudanese christian...... off with her head.  Not to mention probably 50% of the kids in the Islamic world have some lovie or toy the child infused with an anthropromophic personality and named Mohammed.  Not Mohammed the prophet but just Mohammed.  The same as I named my teddy Jack and my stuffed cat Tommy. 

Here is the thing, the streets were thronged today with protestors screaming for the teacher's death and blood. 

But hey, don't criticize Islam or you'll be tarred as phobic.!  So if we don't blame Sudanese Muslims, who else is responsible? And at what point do the obscene "exceptions" of Islamic street become legitimately seen as the rule?  Just a question.

Note, I am not trying to get any muslim posters on this board to appologize or explain or rationlize the situation.  I don't assume that any of you, even the most american hating radicals would jump to the same conclusion as the Sudanese govt. 

But here we have a society where many people feel this way and take to the streets.  We have seen it over and again.  Not just in the Sudan but in Saudi, Pakistan, Palestine, even in europe. 

At what point can we say this is not Israel'f fault or Bush's fault or the old British empire. You can't blame this on colonialism or superior, condesending westerners. You can't blame it on communisim or capitalism or homosexuality or women in sexy clothing.   At what point can people say, OK yes I hate Bush but there is a serious problem with Islam today.   

It is a global problem and there needs some reform.  Untill the western left can stop pointing fingers at their western counterparts on the right.  How many more sound bites can Osama Bin Laden steal from the western left?  At least we all know who is reading Noam Chompsky's books. 

I am not trying to discredit Islam, convert muslims to secular humanism or anything like that.  To the contrary I believe the islamic world needs as many of the rational inclusive types as possible. 
The catholics as we all know had their own crisis and their own day of reckoning.  And in many aspects it is still happening.  But you can't say the catholics are not addressing the subject.  You can't say the catholics are blaming the secular society or capitalism for thier tremendous dysfunction.  The Catholics are not blaming the homosexals and the gay culture for their preverted priests.  The catholic church has suffered some significant blows through history, fallen quite a bit from their earlier glory.  They have suffered their own humiliations but you don't seem them blaming everyone else.

At what point can we A. Aknowledge a problem, B. hold the people within it responsible C. stop finding other scape goats to assauge our white guilt?
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 2:38PM #2
rabello
Posts: 22,022
Probably when the world is destroyed by people on ALL sides in the next world war, and any survivors might decide to commit themselves to the pursuit of peace instead of the pursuit of war and domination.

At any rate, the boogeyman "white guilt" (whatever that is) doesn't have and won't have much to do with it......
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 2:44PM #3
Armwar
Posts: 12,019
Erey, your post is simply awesome. 

At what point, indeed!

I am thinking about writing a novel entitled "Life in Muslim America"...a what if book...what if the Muslim radicals succeed in their ambitions to make the world as they insist it must be?  What if that comes about?  How will we live here in America?  I should say  "how would other Americans live", because I won't be around-it's a Patrick Henry kind of thing for me...


Gail
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 2:45PM #4
Armwar
Posts: 12,019
Do you think that if radical Muslims take over the entire world that there will then be peace?  I seriously doubt it...and why not?


Well, I will leave the answer to the reader...I have my own answer.

Gail
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 3:16PM #5
Erey
Posts: 19,141
Can we say there is a problem with Islam today?  That there is a dangerous movement within that religion to create chaos and oppression not only within muslims but within the entire world?

can we say that without slapping each other with labels such as Islamaphobe?   Can we talk about it without saying Bush has brainwashed the muslims into such bad behaviour? 

Can we get over our icky white guilt?
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 3:18PM #6
rabello
Posts: 22,022
I don't know.  Maybe we can start by not slapping each other with labels such as "Islamofacsist"
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 3:26PM #7
Erey
Posts: 19,141
explain in a brief manner what is so terrible about the term Islamofascism?  How is the term Islamism (currently used by the entire english speaking world muslim and non-muslim) so superior.

Islamism only came into use like earlier in 2007.   Before that it was Islamo-fascism, militant Islam, radical Islam.   Frankly I don't care.  But what makes Islamism the term of the last 15 minutes so superior?

Are you so worried about offending the Islamofascists?  Because I don't give a shit about thier feelings. 

To further the white guilt tangent.  You will find precious little out of muslim dominated press damning the term Islamo-fascism.  You only find white liberals blathering on about it. 

I have for five years followed arabnews, metimes, arabworldnews and lots of other rabbit hole tangents these publications take me.  I think I can remember only on Bnet  a muslim having an issue with the terms Islamofascism and Islamism.  Not in any of the publications that deal wtih these kinds of issues.  so only a couple of muslims here have offense and a bunch of liberals infected with insipid white guilt.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 4:35PM #8
Erey
Posts: 19,141
AGain, I am waiting for your response.  Unless you and NewYawker just want to exchange high-fives all afternoon.
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 4:39PM #9
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301
The teddy bear thing is a non-issue, these people disqualify themselves from reasonable dialogue.

As do those who insinuate "leftists" would "appease" to the Sudanese street mob.
tl;dr
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7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 5:06PM #10
Erey
Posts: 19,141
[QUOTE=CharikIeia;106257]The teddy bear thing is a non-issue, these people disqualify themselves from reasonable dialogue.

As do those who insinuate "leftists" would "appease" to the Sudanese street mob.[/QUOTE]

Leftist, especialy white, western leftists dont' have to appease the Sudanese street mob.  They can just dismiss them as so ridiculous they are not worthy of discussion.  Just like you just did.

At some point however you have to wonder if the ridiculous sudanese street is an abboration or is it reality.  Can you explain it away or can you aknowledge there might be a real problem within the global Islamic world? 

I know the left has come up wtih and continues to come up with loads of excellent reasons for other attrocities such as Beslan and 9-11 and Bali and the Red Mosque in pakistan.
We have heard their excuses adnaseum on these boards for years now.  Typically the left will blame it on Bush, somehow.  Or US hegemony - whatever the hell that means or uppity white people.  Some how.   but when you get to stuff like the Sudan or the Danish cartoons suddenly that is not so easy and because it is a mob and not a political figure like OBL or excuse me hero like Hezbullah's leader you just dismiss it as a non-issue.  Not worthy of the lofty freedom fighters in the Islamic world.
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