Post Reply
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 8:30PM #1
catboxer
Posts: 13,685
We've been sleepwalking into the future for years. Now the future is here. Crude oil closed at $91.86 on Friday. A month from now it'll close at $101.86. Welcome to the future; do yourself a favor and check your favorite fantasies and delusional behaviors at the door.

So today as my cigarette habit sets noisily in the west, I'm doing a little sleeptalking to myself. I know the routine so well I don't have to be awake to recite it. The Revolution will be televised. Forget Lenin and Robespierre. The foundations of Empire will soon be demolished to powder by organic carrots and armies of pacifist mystical chanting Buddhist vegetarians.

Americans are still dreaming that they'll be able to keep their (http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Desig … rview3.htm) insolent chariots running somehow -- on biodiesel, or electricity, or hydrogen, or French-fry grease. Meanwhile, Paris (France, not Texas) has begun to free itself from the embrace of the four-cylinder dinosaurs and rediscovered the bicycle, with (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21272259/) the most progressive city in the U.S., Portland (Oregon, not Maine) soon to follow. As in so many other facets of the current economy, the past is the future.

Meanwhile, the numbers of house foreclosures set new records in September. They'll set new, and unprecedented ones in January, February, and March of next year. Real estate prices are going to drop anywhere from 50 to 95 percent in the next 40 months or so, depending on whether the property in question is viable (i.e., fairly close-in to a center of commerce and within reach of public transportation) or some loser McMansion in (http://catboxx.blogspot.com/2007/05/nat … urbia.html) the farthest distant reaches of Slurbia. Those will end up abandoned, the yards turned into weedy jungles and the green swimming pools breeding mosquitos, and unsellable at any price. The cost of gasoline and heating oil and electricity will see to that.

It's nice to know that the gangsta lendahs who victimized the gullible during the first half of the decade, the Countrywides and the DiTechs, are losing their butts, but the problem is the collapse of the finance "industry" hurts a lot of us little guys too. This is certainly a very bad time to be in debt, and the more debt, the more trouble, for as the value of the dollar weakens against other currencies, debtors will be forced to repay expensive dollars with cheap ones.

But what it all means for people who have more assets than liabilities is hard to say. I don't really understand the dismal science of economics all that well, and a lot of what I read seems self-contradictory. However, another non-economist like myself, Manuel Garcia, provides an interesting look at future possibilities with his Counterpunch.org article called (http://counterpunch.org/garcia10252007.html) "Homes of the Crash Test Dummies."

Obviously the prices of some things are going to rise astronomically -- gasoline and all other forms of energy especially, but also stuff like insurance. The cost of other things, such as housing and a lot of consumer items such as furniture will fall rapidly. Hundreds of thousands of construction workers are or soon will be out of jobs, but on the other hand our now-arrived future will provide a tremendous market for people who know how to repair things.

Food is the most interesting and unpredictable commodity, because local farmers' markets and food cooperatives will start to come into play, and begin to elbow out the Safeways and Winn-Dixies, purveyors of our current diet of overpriced, overprocessed agribusiness stuff. But nobody knows how much influence alternative, local sources of food will have, or how quickly they'll come into their own.

Health care for the masses is a gigantic question mark.

It seems to me we're entering a sea-change as or more significant than the Great Depression, and that the economic crisis whose beginnings are now upon us will accomplish what decades of revolutionary rhetoric couldn't -- an end to our various war machines and their incessant wars, on Iraq, on Iran, on terror, on drugs, and mostly on common sense and sanity.

Cross-posted at catboxx.blogspot.com
Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 8:44PM #2
oneinchrist1963
Posts: 1,353
[QUOTE=catboxer;28975]We've been sleepwalking into the future for years. Now the future is here. Crude oil closed at $91.86 on Friday. A month from now it'll close at $101.86. Welcome to the future; do yourself a favor and check your favorite fantasies and delusional behaviors at the door.

So today as my cigarette habit sets noisily in the west, I'm doing a little sleeptalking to myself. I know the routine so well I don't have to be awake to recite it. The Revolution will be televised. Forget Lenin and Robespierre. The foundations of Empire will soon be demolished to powder by organic carrots and armies of pacifist mystical chanting Buddhist vegetarians.

Americans are still dreaming that they'll be able to keep their (http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Desig … rview3.htm) insolent chariots running somehow -- on biodiesel, or electricity, or hydrogen, or French-fry grease. Meanwhile, Paris (France, not Texas) has begun to free itself from the embrace of the four-cylinder dinosaurs and rediscovered the bicycle, with (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21272259/) the most progressive city in the U.S., Portland (Oregon, not Maine) soon to follow. As in so many other facets of the current economy, the past is the future.

Meanwhile, the numbers of house foreclosures set new records in September. They'll set new, and unprecedented ones in January, February, and March of next year. Real estate prices are going to drop anywhere from 50 to 95 percent in the next 40 months or so, depending on whether the property in question is viable (i.e., fairly close-in to a center of commerce and within reach of public transportation) or some loser McMansion in (http://catboxx.blogspot.com/2007/05/nat … urbia.html) the farthest distant reaches of Slurbia. Those will end up abandoned, the yards turned into weedy jungles and the green swimming pools breeding mosquitos, and unsellable at any price. The cost of gasoline and heating oil and electricity will see to that.

It's nice to know that the gangsta lendahs who victimized the gullible during the first half of the decade, the Countrywides and the DiTechs, are losing their butts, but the problem is the collapse of the finance "industry" hurts a lot of us little guys too. This is certainly a very bad time to be in debt, and the more debt, the more trouble, for as the value of the dollar weakens against other currencies, debtors will be forced to repay expensive dollars with cheap ones.

But what it all means for people who have more assets than liabilities is hard to say. I don't really understand the dismal science of economics all that well, and a lot of what I read seems self-contradictory. However, another non-economist like myself, Manuel Garcia, provides an interesting look at future possibilities with his Counterpunch.org article called (http://counterpunch.org/garcia10252007.html) "Homes of the Crash Test Dummies."

Obviously the prices of some things are going to rise astronomically -- gasoline and all other forms of energy especially, but also stuff like insurance. The cost of other things, such as housing and a lot of consumer items such as furniture will fall rapidly. Hundreds of thousands of construction workers are or soon will be out of jobs, but on the other hand our now-arrived future will provide a tremendous market for people who know how to repair things.

Food is the most interesting and unpredictable commodity, because local farmers' markets and food cooperatives will start to come into play, and begin to elbow out the Safeways and Winn-Dixies, purveyors of our current diet of overpriced, overprocessed agribusiness stuff. But nobody knows how much influence alternative, local sources of food will have, or how quickly they'll come into their own.

Health care for the masses is a gigantic question mark.

It seems to me we're entering a sea-change as or more significant than the Great Depression, and that the economic crisis whose beginnings are now upon us will accomplish what decades of revolutionary rhetoric couldn't -- an end to our various war machines and their incessant wars, on Iraq, on Iran, on terror, on drugs, and mostly on common sense and sanity.

Cross-posted at catboxx.blogspot.com[/QUOTE]


You know what's Ironic?
The Similarities between the religious prophecy from the Bible and secular cries of Doom.


We have secular sources that claim with much proof that, we will soon be experiencing;
Global warming
running out of oil
world disorder and war and unrest
verge of epidemic of global proportions, plagues etc.
government social security going broke
rising of ocean sea levels
increase in violent storms

Ezekiel, Daniel, and revelations speaks much of these same predictions


The only difference is, the prophecy from scripture tells you why it will happen and provides you with solutions.


The secular sources only blame others.
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of the government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Samuel Adams

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals. Take the Bible out of schools and there would be an explosion in crime."

Benjamin Rush
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 9:04PM #3
eadler
Posts: 4,449
OIC,
It seems that you agree with the facts that Catboxer has laid out as the proofs, which are also the sources of the coming dislocations and changes in the environment, economy and political order.

You speak of solutions provided by the bible. For the the benefit of those like myself, who don't pay attention to biblical prophecy, could you give us some details. What are these "solutions" of wich you speak?
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 9:18PM #4
oneinchrist1963
Posts: 1,353
[QUOTE=eadler;29045]OIC,
It seems that you agree with the facts that Catboxer has laid out as the proofs, which are also the sources of the coming dislocations and changes in the environment, economy and political order.

You speak of solutions provided by the bible. For the the benefit of those like myself, who don't pay attention to biblical prophecy, could you give us some details. What are these "solutions" of wich you speak?[/QUOTE]


with respect to catboxer I will not derail his thread. But to as easily as possible to answer your question as to not avoid your question i will say.

It's kinda like watching a football game you already know the final score of.

You expect what you see, and nothing surprises you.

I do not know how to prevent it, nor will I try, But i know it must be. And when you know what is going to happen how to prepare yourself, and what to expect, as well as the what the final outcome is.  You can prepare yourself and you have hope.


What i was trying to illustrate is simple, many of our expectations are more similar than different we just may differ in what we believe the reasons and the answers are.  Some may have hope some may not.


BTW nice profile, you truth telling, conservative liberal liar.

;)
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of the government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Samuel Adams

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals. Take the Bible out of schools and there would be an explosion in crime."

Benjamin Rush
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 10:23PM #5
doxieman122
Posts: 488
[QUOTE=oneinchrist1963;29067]with respect to catboxer I will not derail his thread.[/QUOTE]

Too late for that ...

[QUOTE=oneinchrist1963;29067]I do not know how to prevent it, nor will I try, But i know it must be. And when you know what is going to happen how to prepare yourself, and what to expect, as well as the what the final outcome is.  You can prepare yourself and you have hope.[/QUOTE]

Christianity has had an apocalyptic streak for nearly 2000 years.  The Apostles fully expected the end of the world to come even as they did their preaching in the catacombs to avoid becoming lionine dinner in the Roman Empire.  (One supposes the martyrs did encounter their apocalypse, alas.)

The evils of the world (war, famine, sickness, disasters, etc.) have been with us before and will be with us always.  Horrible things could certainly happen in today's world to kill millions, even billions.  But in terms of completely eradicating humanity, what on earth makes today any different from mutual assured destruction or the Holocaust or the Lisbon earthquake or the Black Death or the Crusades or Visigoths (or Huns, or Genghis Khan, or ...) or anything else threatening human existence since that day on the hill called Calvary in Jerusalem around 33 A.D.?
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 10:46PM #6
oneinchrist1963
Posts: 1,353
[QUOTE=doxieman122;29212]Too late for that ...



Christianity has had an apocalyptic streak for nearly 2000 years.  The Apostles fully expected the end of the world to come even as they did their preaching in the catacombs to avoid becoming lionine dinner in the Roman Empire.  (One supposes the martyrs did encounter their apocalypse, alas.)

The evils of the world (war, famine, sickness, disasters, etc.) have been with us before and will be with us always.  Horrible things could certainly happen in today's world to kill millions, even billions.  But in terms of completely eradicating humanity, what on earth makes today any different from mutual assured destruction or the Holocaust or the Lisbon earthquake or the Black Death or the Crusades or Visigoths (or Huns, or Genghis Khan, or ...) or anything else threatening human existence since that day on the hill called Calvary in Jerusalem around 33 A.D.?[/QUOTE]


Unfortunately for everyone before they were all wrong.

Instantaneous communications/Television, thermonuclear war, and the rebirth of Israel as a nationstate , were all fundemental nessessities for the return of Jesus.
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of the government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Samuel Adams

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals. Take the Bible out of schools and there would be an explosion in crime."

Benjamin Rush
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 10:51PM #7
doxieman122
Posts: 488
[QUOTE=oneinchrist1963;29273]Unfortunately for everyone before they were all wrong.

Instantaneous communications/Television, thermonuclear war, and the rebirth of Israel as a nationstate , were all fundemental nessessities for the return of Jesus.[/QUOTE]

.. since the late 1940s, when all of those were developed.

We've survived 60 years so far.  Why not 600 or 6000 more?

Hey, believe what you want as far as the end of the world.  But don't take this "Left Behind" glee that it will finally be the punishment of your enemies.  It seems to me most conservative Christians take this perspective even more than celebrating their own rapture.
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 11:01PM #8
oneinchrist1963
Posts: 1,353
[QUOTE=doxieman122;29283].. since the late 1940s, when all of those were developed.

We've survived 60 years so far.  Why not 600 or 6000 more?

Hey, believe what you want as far as the end of the world.  But don't take this "Left Behind" glee that it will finally be the punishment of your enemies.  It seems to me most conservative Christians take this perspective even more than celebrating their own rapture.[/QUOTE]

Could be 6000, but I doubt it.

Rapture could come in the form of a nuclear holocaust


just saying

;)
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of the government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Samuel Adams

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals. Take the Bible out of schools and there would be an explosion in crime."

Benjamin Rush
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 11:08PM #9
doxieman122
Posts: 488
[QUOTE=oneinchrist1963;29311]Could be 6000, but I doubt it.

Rapture could come in the form of a nuclear holocaust

just saying

;)[/QUOTE]

... I may be crazy, but it just may be a ... wait, that's a Billy Joel song :p

On a serious note, you never responded to my observation about schadenfreude at the wicked vs. religious delight at the rapture ... Why would you care about such schadenfreude at that point?
Quick Reply
Cancel
6 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 11:21PM #10
oneinchrist1963
Posts: 1,353
[QUOTE=doxieman122;29332]... I may be crazy, but it just may be a ... wait, that's a Billy Joel song :p

On a serious note, you never responded to my observation about schadenfreude at the wicked vs. religious delight at the rapture ... Why would you care about such schadenfreude at that point?[/QUOTE]


you've lost me here, sorry.


but something you said in an earlier post interested me. Many think the signs of the times are the signs that preceede the end of the world.


No such thing, not in the near future anyway. The world will be around for a long, long, long  time.

ps.
cat

sorry about derailing your thread.
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of the government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

Samuel Adams

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals. Take the Bible out of schools and there would be an explosion in crime."

Benjamin Rush
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook