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7 years ago  ::  Oct 16, 2007 - 3:33PM #1
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,162
On the old BN we had the victory in Iraq thread. Because of the import  of that issue I would like to continue a discussion of  the War. If the news of the demise of Al'qaida is correct then some progress is being made. However some commanders dismiss it as wishful thinking.  For right now the US militarycasualties are down and that is a plus. Lets hope that trend continues.
“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 16, 2007 - 4:33PM #2
stitch813
Posts: 5,519
In my heart of hearts I hope it's true, but there doesn't seem to be the enthusiasm there that you would think would come with such good news which leaves me to believe maybe it is suspect.  Besides the general who say we've crippled AQ is the same general that said Mission Accomplished a few months after the war began and well we know how accurate that was.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 17, 2007 - 9:44AM #3
rangerken
Posts: 16,408
A lot of us who initially supported the war (like me) and later decided we should leave (also like me) are just afraid to get too optimistic.

My son, who is in the army, Is optimistic.

Unfortunately, i'm still not :(

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 17, 2007 - 11:22AM #4
Stardove
Posts: 15,732

rangerken wrote:

A lot of us who initially supported the war (like me) and later decided we should leave (also like me) are just afraid to get too optimistic.

My son, who is in the army, Is optimistic.

Unfortunately, I'm still not :(

Ken




Ken,

On you first statement we are in agreement. Well, almost. I'm not sure I supported this war in the beginning. What I do remember is knowing without a doubt and telling friends before the elections of 2000, if Bush became President the USA would go to war. Sometimes it doesn't feel good to be right about a situation.

I do support you in praying for protection for your son and all the troops. May you have peace of mind knowing your son is protected.


The world is your illusionary field.
Your Soul is your reality.
- John-Roger

Beliefnet Community Wide Moderator ~ Peace Love Stardove
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The sun rises every morning and sheds light, vanquishing the night's darkness. The rooster also rises every morning only, unlike the sun, he simply makes noise. But the darkness of the night is dispelled by sunshine, not by the rooster's crowing.The world can use more light and less noise. Where I can, I want to be light.

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7 years ago  ::  Oct 17, 2007 - 4:58PM #5
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324
The only way to support the warriors is to be totally honest with them:  anything else is deluding them, deceiving them.

The honest truth is:
1) war in Iraq is not in the US national interest; it makes us all more vulnerable.

2)the continued slaughter of Iraqis (now over 1 million) is unconscionable, the result of US military invasion/occupation.

3) the only people making out on this war are the warprofiteers and the oil companies.

4)the war plan, like Hitler's, doesn't end in Iraq, it is about world domination.  Yes, first control the energy supplies.

5) the Iraq War violates the US Constitution (is not defensive, wasn't properly authorized), the UN Charter (war of aggression), the Geneva accords (no torture, etc.) and the UCMJ (doesn't protect innocent Iraqi citizens).  Therefore, no soldier is compelled to fight in it.

6) the choice to join in a megalomaniacal dream of world empire is each soldier's individual and personal choice, not to be made lightly.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 17, 2007 - 8:06PM #6
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,162
1. I also believe this war was not and is not in thebest interest of the US.
2. The civilian toll is probably not a milliion I have found sources listinged from 80.000 to 500,000
3. I agree
4. The constituion does not require a war be for defensive purposes only. It does not require a declaration of war, only authorization from congress for thcommanderinchief to use the army and navy. The War Powers act and the Authorization  for use of military force Against Iraq resolutionof 2002   make military action legal.  The UCMJ was created by congressto apply to the Uniformed Military Services.
5. I stillbelieve the wr is not inth best interest of the US and should be stopped

By the way I am still looking for a response to  of My statement of fact that I did not say ,in any post, that MiIitary members gave up their constitutional rights when then enlisted in the military.
“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 12:01AM #7
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324
fodason,

The US Constitution authorizes Congress to create an armed forces "for defense".  It does not mention using one for "offense", for a war of aggression.  Therefore, that is left to the states.

The UCMJ states that it is the duty of soldiers in occupied countries to protect the lives of innocent civilians.  That is not what is going on in Iraq: 1 mil. dead.

I do not believe that I said you said x, y, or z.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 12:01AM #8
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324
fodason,

The US Constitution authorizes Congress to create an armed forces "for defense".  It does not mention using one for "offense", for a war of aggression.  Therefore, that is left to the states.

The UCMJ states that it is the duty of soldiers in occupied countries to protect the lives of innocent civilians.  That is not what is going on in Iraq: 1 mil. dead.

I do not believe that I said you said x, y, or z.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 10:37AM #9
NJLee
Posts: 2,191
It is critical that this discussion continue simply because it is the most important issue affecting peace in this world.   

I am not comfortable with this new format, but will try as best I can. 

Foda is right in his observations that we are making progress in defeating alQaeda in Iraq.  I see it as achieving a victory for the Iraq people and a tribute to the US
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 10:40AM #10
NJLee
Posts: 2,191
It is critical that this discussion continue simply because it is the most important issue affecting peace in this world.   

I am not comfortable with this new format, but will try as best I can. 

Foda is right in his observations that we are making progress in defeating alQaeda in Iraq.  I see it as achieving a victory for the Iraq people and a tribute to the US
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