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3 years ago  ::  Dec 16, 2011 - 4:51PM #2211
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,570

Dec 16, 2011 -- 3:10PM, Stardove wrote:


Dec 16, 2011 -- 2:55PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Dec 16, 2011 -- 2:39PM, Stardove wrote:


At least 919,967 people have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq since the U.S. and coalition attacks, based on lowest credible estimates.




What do you call "credible estimates?



Credible estimates are hard to know when the military admitted they did not keep up with the Iranian body count.


The Americans learned one lesson from Vietnam: don't count the civilian dead. As a result, no one knows how many Iraqis have been killed in the five years since the invasion. Estimates put the toll at between 100,000 and one million, and now a bitter war of numbers is raging. Jonathan Steele and Suzanne Goldenberg report


Lieutenant General Tommy Franks, who led the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan during his time as head of US Central Command, once announced, "We don't do body counts." This blunt response to a question about civilian casualties was an attempt to distance George Bush's wars from the disaster of Vietnam. 


Source


Note the source is not current article.




I go with IBC.  It is an antiwar site, yet it goes for CREDIBLE and VERIFIABLE data.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2012 - 11:28AM #2212
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

The Iraqis declared a national holiday to celebrate their driving out the US military occupation force.  Meanwhile, the news in the US seems to weekly (or more often) feature an ex-soldier who goes on a killing spree in the US; most recently on Mt Ranier killing a park officer and wounding four others.  In MN, recently an ex-soldier killer a policeman who responded to a domestic situation.  The military seems to train killers and then let them loose in the general population.  Talk about counter-productive insecurity.  We'd be better off without a US military sucking the economy dry.  It is just a corporate welfare scam.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 2:04AM #2213
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,570

Jan 3, 2012 -- 11:28AM, johndavid23 wrote:


The Iraqis declared a national holiday to celebrate their driving out the US military occupation force...




S'funny.  I seem to recall our military did their own driving out of Iraq...


Jan 3, 2012 -- 11:28AM, johndavid23 wrote:


The military Talk about counter-productive insecurity.  We'd be better off without a US military sucking the economy dry.  It is just a corporate welfare scam. seems to train killers and then let them loose in the general population. 




Interesting how a lot of military technology makes its way into the civilian market and boosts our economy and ability to compete in the World market.


And the military seems to be able to field superbly trained technicians who work in the civilian community with that new marketable technology.


Rather a major omission?


Not bad for a bunch of "trained-killer scumbags."

Moderated by Merope on Jan 04, 2012 - 01:00PM
"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 11:12AM #2214
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

Jan 4, 2012 -- 2:04AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Jan 3, 2012 -- 11:28AM, johndavid23 wrote:


The Iraqis declared a national holiday to celebrate their driving out the US military occupation force...




S'funny.  I seem to recall our military did their own driving out of Iraq...


***probably driven out by mercenaries***jd23


Jan 3, 2012 -- 11:28AM, johndavid23 wrote:


The military Talk about counter-productive insecurity.  We'd be better off without a US military sucking the economy dry.  It is just a corporate welfare scam. seems to train killers and then let them loose in the general population. 




Interesting how a lot of military technology makes its way into the civilian market and boosts our economy and ability to compete in the World market.


***maybe that explains why the US economy is tanked, since it is built on destruction (war) rather than production/positive-creativity.***jd23


And the military seems to be able to field superbly trained technicians who work in the civilian community with that new marketable technology.


***no examples, perhaps because that warprofiteer propaganda is pure lies.  The "civilian population" doesn't need more snipers.***jd23





 




my responses in ***

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2012 - 10:19PM #2215
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,570

Jan 4, 2012 -- 11:12AM, johndavid23 wrote:


Jan 4, 2012 -- 2:04AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Jan 3, 2012 -- 11:28AM, johndavid23 wrote:


The Iraqis declared a national holiday to celebrate their driving out the US military occupation force...




S'funny.  I seem to recall our military did their own driving out of Iraq...



***probably driven out by mercenaries***jd23



Hmmm.  Only if your consider contract drivers "mercenaries."


Jan 4, 2012 -- 11:12AM, johndavid23 wrote:


Jan 4, 2012 -- 2:04AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Jan 3, 2012 -- 11:28AM, johndavid23 wrote:


The military Talk about counter-productive insecurity.  We'd be better off without a US military sucking the economy dry.  It is just a corporate welfare scam. seems to train killers and then let them loose in the general population. 




Interesting how a lot of military technology makes its way into the civilian market and boosts our economy and ability to compete in the World market.



***maybe that explains why the US economy is tanked, since it is built on destruction (war) rather than production/positive-creativity.***jd23



There is SOME validity in this particular statement, as there are a preponderance of military engineers and technicians who get into aerospace after leaving the service.


Of course, a lot of military types work for outfits like Sony, Verizon, Ford, John Deere, while others go into strictly "military ventures like, Education, Health Care, Public Service, or the like.  


In short, your misreprsentation merely prove that you have a prejudice against the military and nothing more.


Jan 4, 2012 -- 11:12AM, johndavid23 wrote:


Jan 4, 2012 -- 2:04AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


And the military seems to be able to field superbly trained technicians who work in the civilian community with that new marketable technology.



***no examples, perhaps because that warprofiteer propaganda is pure lies.  The "civilian population" doesn't need more snipers.***jd23



Tell me johndavid23, just WHAT percentage of our military are SNIPERS?


If you have no idea, then all you have suceeded in doing is demonstrating your absolute ignorance of all things military.


Such asinine statements do nothing except highlight just how biased and prejudiced you are against anything and anyone military.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 8:00AM #2216
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,147

This may  be my last post on this thread, ”the Iraq War”. The American involvement in the 2003- 2011 Iraq war is finished.
The US military LEFT Iraq in an orderly road march to Kuwait and not under fire.  Some Iraqis waved goodbye.   Yes there were civilian casualties, probably almost as many as Saddam and sons would have raped, tortured and murdered if left in power 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2012 - 11:02AM #2217
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

Jan 10, 2012 -- 8:00AM, Fodaoson wrote:


This may  be my last post on this thread, ”the Iraq War”. The American involvement in the 2003- 2011 Iraq war is finished.
The US military LEFT Iraq in an orderly road march to Kuwait and not under fire.  Some Iraqis waved goodbye.   Yes there were civilian casualties, probably almost as many as Saddam and sons would have raped, tortured and murdered if left in power 




Yes, considering the US military regieme in Iraq the equivalent in terror and oppression as Saddam's regieme seems accurate.  But, what does that prove, that human beings can descend to the level of hatred of those they make war against?  Don't we ever learn from that?  Thus, no war is ever honorable or just, as we always know that an equal portion of suffering and misery will result from war as doing nothing.  Better to focus on creative activities rather than destruction.  Agents of destruction are all alike.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2012 - 8:15PM #2218
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,570

...Yes, considering the US military regieme in Iraq the equivalent in terror and oppression as Saddam's regieme seems accurate...



Really?  So why is it then that Iraqis STILL feel that getting rid of Saddam was one good thing the US invasion did?


 

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 13, 2012 - 1:10AM #2219
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Because the war in Iraq is over...actually has been for quite a while...this thread is no longer a 'sticky', but a regular thread that will continue to prosper, or fade away as members may decide.


Rangerken, co-host

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2012 - 12:27PM #2220
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

The Iraq war is only over for the neo-nuts who went in saying that 3 days and $3 billion would straighten things out and now want to forget their "mistake" by any means possible..  For everyone else, for the rest of the world, the Iraq war continues, whether at home as soldiers commit suicide of kill their families and communities, as the economy stagnates due to the $trillion (s) wasted in Iraq; or in Iraq as car bombers continue their war, as millions of refugees wait homeless, as crippled children find more cluster bombs and lose more limbs, as toxic chemicals and radiation mutate babies born in certain bomb spots.


Yet, the soldiers camp out now in Kuwait and pretend that the war is over:  what are they waiting/staying for?  Yes, more war. Just take a breather every ten years and continue the slaughter of innocent civilians.  After all, those warprofiteers are not about to give up their excessive profits just because they've sucked the economy dry.

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