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Switch to Forum Live View Israel and Palestine
7 years ago  ::  Oct 18, 2007 - 11:06AM #1
rangerken
Posts: 16,406
Hey there all you regulars from the old, Israel and Palestine board...he's our new home! Come on in Davidhoward, and Sherri, and Jastor, and EZ everyone else.....

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 20, 2007 - 4:48AM #2
habesor
Posts: 5,650
I go away for one month and the whole virtual world has changed on me. I'm still in Australia but will be home at the end of the week.
Habesor
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 25, 2007 - 2:46AM #3
DavidHoward
Posts: 25
Something tells me this is a really bad idea. But then, I'm a pessimist.
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 25, 2007 - 8:37AM #4
NJLee
Posts: 2,191
This was taken from today's AlJezerra

Hamas forces reportedly beat protesters routinely to disperse demonstrations [Reuters] 

Amnesty International has accused Hamas and Fatah of widespread human rights abuses, including torture, arbitrary detention and other ill treatment against each other.

The rights watchdog on Wednesday released a report criticising the Palestinian governments in both Gaza and the West Bank for harming civilians in their clashes.

The 58-page report, Torn Apart by Factional Strife, said about 350 Palestinians were killed during the first months of 2007 in Palestinian infighting in the Gaza Strip, many of them noncombatants.
 
Clashes between the two sides peaked in June, when Hamas fighters forced Fatah-dominated Palestinian security forces from Gaza.

Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president and leader of Fatah, dismissed the Hamas-led cabinet and formed his own government, which controls the West Bank.

Hamas, led by Ismail Haniya, the ousted prime minister, continues to govern Gaza.

Muslims killing Muslims, again and again.  Whey can't Muslims get along??

And some blame Israel
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2007 - 12:14AM #5
habesor
Posts: 5,650
NJL,

You don't seem to understand. Any violent attacks on Israel or Israelis is just the poor Palestinians acting in self-defense. Any attacks by Israel on Palestinians is colonialist oppression and aggression. Any attacks on Palestinians by other Palestinians are:

a. unproven allegations
b. See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil.
c. The consequence of Palestinian frustration at their unjust treatment by the Zionists and therefore the fault of the Israelis.

Take your pick.

From the time of the "Arab Rebellion" of 1936-39 until today, whenever the Arabs of Palestine have resorted to large scale violence against the Jews, the number of Arabs killed by other Arabs has been higher than the number of Arabs killed by Jews or killed by the British when they were in charge. When law and order breaks down in Palestinian society it is a great opportunity to settle old scores between the Arabs themselves.

One of the reasons why the Hamas will now hold on to power for dear life in Gaza is that if they fall from power they are in for some very serious retribution on the part of some of the Gaza clans. This has almost nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the nature and role of violence in Arab society.

But then again, it's a lot easier to just say that the Jews are at fault.
Habesor
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2007 - 1:06AM #6
habesor
Posts: 5,650
We are just a few weeks away from a Middle East peace conference. Does anyone have any comments about what they expect from the conference, assuming that it takes place?

My only observation is that this conference seems to have aroused less excitement in the press and elsewhere (including the b-net forums) than any other such conference that I can remember.
Habesor
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 26, 2007 - 11:56PM #7
rangerken
Posts: 16,406
DavidHoward, it is possible that we may decide to re-establish a separate Israel and Palestine board. For now, though, let's see how things work out here. Please continue to contribute!

Ken
Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 1:04AM #8
habesor
Posts: 5,650
Often the State of Israel is the object of criticism about its treatment of the Israeli-Arab minority. I have expressed such criticism myself. But what is often neglected is the actions taken by the Israeli-Arab leadership which only aids those within Israel who argue that Israeli-Arabs should be second class citizens. I continue to believe that the Israeli-Arabs are being very poorly served by their own political leadership, especially when dealing with issues of equal civil rights and achieving equal opportunities within Israeli society. An example of this poor service is exemplified in the following quote:

"Knesset Member Jamal Zahalka (Balad) took part in a protest conference against a government initiative to draft Arab youths for national service, and expressed his opposition to the idea on Saturday.

"Anyone who does national service will become a leper and Arab society will throw him up from its midst," the minister told Ynet. "

The entire article can be found at:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 … 60,00.html
Habesor
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 1:14AM #9
Piobair_Paganach
Posts: 291
Are you suggesting that an Arab collaborator who joins the IDF which terrorizes the Arab population won't become a pariah in Arab society (as he already is in Israeli society)? Are you kidding?
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7 years ago  ::  Oct 28, 2007 - 1:58AM #10
habesor
Posts: 5,650
Piobair,

You might try reading the article before mistakenly writing that the proposed program calls for an Israeli-Arab to join the IDF. In fact the program calls for Israeli-Arabs to volunteer for national non-military service mostly within their own communities. There is, of course, legitimate reasons to debate such a proposal but legitimate discussion IMHO does not include grossly misrepresenting the proposed program as you have done in your previous message.
Habesor
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