john does not tell the same story 3 times. The 7 seals, the 7 trumpets, and the seven vials predict 21 seperate events, in chronilogical order.
And Babylon does not equal Rome which is one of the 7 golden lampstands. Babylon the great whore is Moscow which sits on 7 hills and many waters.
As usual you present opinion without evidence. Actual scholars with doctorates in New Testament studies disagree with you. Your track record doesn't stand up to the actual evidence. If you make a claim support it with evidence as those who disagree with you do.
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
TPaine, what I like about you, is that you at least give an opinion, as you try to tear apart what was written.
When it comes to Revelation I'm tearing apart what is written, I'm presenting an interpretation of what is written as expressed by scholars with doctorates in New Testament studies and are fluent in Koine Greek.
Another thing, you shouldn't slander someone, from gossip, without knowing what really went down!
Do you mean my saying Arnold Murray pulled out a gun when a member of the congregation called him a blasphemer? That's not slander (when written it called libel), it's recorded on video tape. They cut the picture but Murray can be heard saying, "Here, take this nine millimeter to that boy."Link
The whole 144,000 is a number concerning God's Elect, those SEALED in their foreheads=minds, with the Word of God. For what reason: to help save as many as they can, for the First Resurrection'; all else are reserved for the Second Resurrection, which is at the end of the millenium or Lord's Day! The First resurrection happens when the True Lord Jesus Christ returns, which is after the signs and lying wonders of Satan (reference: 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9).
2 Thessalonians 8-9 And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume withthe Spirit of His mouth (two-edged sword of Revelation)and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: Even Him, Whose coming isAFTER the working of Satan with all powers and signs and lying wonders.
If the first resurrection hasn't taken place yet, what do you call what happened on the Sunday after his crucifixion? Was that not the first resurrection?According to an actual scholar who unlike Arnold Murray had an actual doctorate from and actual accredited university in "Studies in a Greek Gospel Lectionary," the late Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, PhD., wrote that the 144,000 were those who did not defile themselves in pagan worship.
Satan will be that spurious messiah, who looks like what most think Jesus looks like; and he will wholly seduce the world with his flatteries of prosperity and world peace, and the world will eat it up, just as Eve did. Satan is not an ugly monster, as Hollywood poses him to be; no instead he is that beautiful, subtil, fallen cherub, that seduces. Satan knows the wants of the flesh, and he will use it in his favor against all of God's children, so that they will worship him instead of God. Prophesy tells he is quite successful in doing so, in the book of Apocalypse / Revelation.
I have two questions concerning what you wrote. 1) How did the Jewish concept get changed from being God's accuser or prosecutor who was totally subservient to God and was tasked by God to tempt people and report the people who did not reject the temptation to God as told in the Old Testament (Tanakh), to an evil rebel who acted independently and attempted to get people to turn against God? 2)Why would someone like me who doesn't believe in the first, second, third, or whatever coming of Jesus be fooled by someone or something pretending to be someone or something I don't believe in in the first place?
God loves ALL His children, Not Just the Elect! As a Father, God wants as many as willreturn to Him. This is why when you read Revelation, it is written in many places: peoples, nations and tongues=languages. God created them and God desires them to return to Him. God is a Father of tough love, therefore if He has to "thump your gord" to get your attention and keep you from destroying yourself or others, He will do it.
However, this God who wants everyone to return to him is perfectly willing to condemn the majority of his creations because they hold different beliefs. If God had wanted there to be a single correct belief he could have created one that no human could fail to accept. There is nothing an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent deity cannot do.
Tongues=languages is used quite often in Revelation. What is very interesting about it "tongues", is the fact that there was a study a few years back, which discovered that all languages connected, and that there was "one primary language," that all languages came from. My opinion is that the language of God is actually all languages in unison=oneness.
There may well have been a single root language when homo sapiens first started to migrate out of Africa abut 70,000 years ago. As people spread across the world, languages became localized.
John the Revelator wrote what he saw, as the Lord took him "in the spirit" to the Lord's Day, and right before it and slightly after it.
There is no evidence for that. The whole assumption of it being the case is that John wrote that it was so. There is no independent confirmation of the story.
World peace and it's focal point is Jerusalem, in one way or another, all are directly or indirectly affected by it, therefore it is the barometer of these times.
Until human nature evolves enough to overcome negative emotions there will be no world peace.
Don't fall asleep on your watch, as watchmen and women, kept that region in mind, as well as, all those nations East of the Euphrates River!
People have predicted John's "prophesy" would come to pass in every generation since the end of the first century CE. All such predictions failed to come true. There is no valid reason to predict that it will come true now.
BTW, thank you for discussing your beliefs.
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
Scholars and Higher Critics are paid to defame the Word of God, by their so-called newly learned enlightenment, knowledge and degrees. Yet, in their interpretations, many do not consider cultural traditions, language due to migrations and assimiulation, and governmental rule, etc. But that's my opinion!
WARNING: BE ADVISED, BIBLICAL EXPOSURE, SPIRITUAL NUDITY!
FOR SPIRITUALLY MATURE AUDIENCES!
We are now going into the Sixth Vision, of John concerning the Revelation of Jesus Christ...
Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
The Sixth Vision In Heaven
The Seven Angels
I saw another sign: having to do with Revelation 12:1 and the woman Israel, the Nation, People that were scattered abroad, through captivity, Jewish call it the Disporas or Dispersion; it was the time during and after the Kings of Israel kept going into heathen traditions and even mingling them with God's ways. God SCATTERED all of the twelve Tribes of Israel around the world, Israel was NEVER LOST to God, He knows EXACTLY where they were and are, from the beginning. But Israel lost who she is!
The seven plagues are in connection with Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. This is how long Antichrist and his angels have: Satan and his angels will deceive all that do not have the "seal of God" in their foreheads=Truth of God's Word! Therefore, the revival that takes place will kill men spiritually, the spiritual blood will flow, because they do not know the TRUTH. Man will run wild after this most holy LOOKING individual, who will act like and look like Jesus, and his angels that look so religious, as ministers of light; BUT in reality they are fallen angels, here to spiritually seduce as many as they can. They are the seven plagues. The number "seven" means spiritual completeness and is used 24 times in Revelation.
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
The Sixth Vison In heaven
Worship offered
(I'm going out on a limb here, TMHO) This sea of glass mingled with fire, Television made with glass, and electric is the fire in which it broadcast with. It will be seen before the world as they stand (NOT fly away)!
15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the Song of the Lamb, saying, Great and Marvellous are Thy works, LORD GOD ALMIGHTY; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints.
These two songs are found in the Word of God: "Song of MOSES" Deuteronomy 31:30 names it and Deuteronomy 32 is the song of Moses."Song of the Lamb" Psalm 86:9-12
Psalms 86:9 All nations whom Thou hast made shall come and worship before Thee, O LORD; and shall glorify Thy name.
86:10 For Thou art great, and doest wondrous things: Thou art God alone.
86:11 Teach me Thy way, O LORD; I will walk in Thy truth:
86:12 I will praise Thee, O LORD my God, with all my heart: And I will glorify Thy name for evermore.
Song of the Lamb, as the overcomers praise Him.
For now something to think about or put it on the shelve, til next time when Revelation / Apocalypse continues.
Scholars and Higher Critics are paid to defame the Word of God, by their so-called newly learned enlightenment, knowledge and degrees.
Don't lie about people who know more than you and Arnold Murray. That's just nasty, ignorant, and vulgar. It sickens me when people do that. You should acknowledge their superior expertise and learn from them.
TPaine, Scholars and Higher Critics are paid to defame the Word of God, by their so-called newly learned enlightenment, knowledge and degrees. Yet, in their interpretations, many do not consider cultural traditions, language due to migrations and assimiulation, and governmental rule, etc. But that's my opinion!
Speaking of slander, or in this case libel, Nancy cultural traditions, languages etc as well as comparison of different manuscripts and various writing styles is EXACTLY what these people study and compare. Of curse they use real, documented histories and works not what some eighteenth century racist pulls out of his rectum!
"Not all who wander are lost" J.R.R.Tolkein You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. ~Anne Lamott "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." Friedrich von Schiller
Scholars and Higher Critics are paid to defame the Word of God, by their so-called newly learned enlightenment, knowledge and degrees. Yet, in their interpretations, many do not consider cultural traditions, language due to migrations and assimiulation, and governmental rule, etc. But that's my opinion!
Yes, it's your opinion, but like so many of your others, it's a completely faulty one. I bet you couldn't even name a single scholar supposedly "paid to defame the Word of God"?
And when has genuine scrutiny of the Bible - something that has almost always involved cultural traditions, language, etc - and its results ever amounted to defamation?
The perennial problem with bibliolators is that anything discovered about the Bible that disturbs their comforting embrace of the tome has always been considered defamatory, which is why Christian history is chock full of examples of them killing and burning other believers holding differing opinions and views of it.
I wonder if there is another book on the planet that has been the cause of so much blood and horror?
Scholars and Higher Critics are paid to defame the Word of God, by their so-called newly learned enlightenment, knowledge and degrees. Yet, in their interpretations, many do not consider cultural traditions, language due to migrations and assimiulation, and governmental rule, etc. But that's my opinion!
I can document what I said to prove it's not libel. Can you document the libelous above statement that scholars are paid to defame the Bible? Actually, seminaries teach cultural traditions, Koine Greek, ancient Hebrew, Greek, and Roman history, Bible history, and the history of Christianity. That is for a Bachelor's Degree. It takes far more intensive study to earn a Masters or Doctorate Degree.For instance the University of North Carolina Department of Religious Studies has the courses at thisLink
WARNING: BE ADVISED, BIBLICAL EXPOSURE, SPIRITUAL NUDITY!
FOR SPIRITUALLY MATURE AUDIENCES!
We are now going into the Sixth Vision, of John concerning the Revelation of Jesus Christ...
Revelation 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
The Sixth Vision In Heaven
The Seven Angels
I saw another sign: having to do with Revelation 12:1 and the woman Israel, the Nation, People that were scattered abroad, through captivity, Jewish call it the Disporas or Dispersion; it was the time during and after the Kings of Israel kept going into heathen traditions and even mingling them with God's ways. God SCATTERED all of the twelve Tribes of Israel around the world, Israel was NEVER LOST to God, He knows EXACTLY where they were and are, from the beginning. But Israel lost who she is!
There were two Diasporas in Jewish history. One was when the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BCE conquered Judea, destroyed Solomon's Temple, and took some, but not all, the Jews to Babylon. They were allowed to return and build the Second Temple when Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon in 538 BCE. The second diaspora was in 135 CE following the Romans under Hadrian crushing the Bar Kokhba revolt. Again, many but not all Jews were forced out of Judea. God had nothing to do with it unless you consider Nebuchadnezzar and Hadrian God.
The seven plagues are in connection with Revelation 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. This is how long Antichrist and his angels have: Satan and his angels will deceive all that do not have the "seal of God" in their foreheads=Truth of God's Word! Therefore, the revival that takes place will kill men spiritually, the spiritual blood will flow, because they do not know the TRUTH. Man will run wild after this most holy LOOKING individual, who will act like and look like Jesus, and his angels that look so religious, as ministers of light; BUT in reality they are fallen angels, here to spiritually seduce as many as they can. They are the seven plagues. The number "seven" means spiritual completeness and is used 24 times in Revelation.
You continue to refuse to explain why those of us who don't believe Jesus will return will be fooled by a fake Jesus. Such deception can only fool Christians.
15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
The Sixth Vison In heaven
Worship offered
(I'm going out on a limb here, TMHO) This sea of glass mingled with fire, Television made with glass, and electric is the fire in which it broadcast with. It will be seen before the world as they stand (NOT fly away)!
15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the Song of the Lamb, saying, Great and Marvellous are Thy works, LORD GOD ALMIGHTY; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints.
These two songs are found in the Word of God: "Song of MOSES" Deuteronomy 31:30 names it and Deuteronomy 32 is the song of Moses."Song of the Lamb" Psalm 86:9-12
Psalms 86:9 All nations whom Thou hast made shall come and worship before Thee, O LORD; and shall glorify Thy name.
86:10 For Thou art great, and doest wondrous things: Thou art God alone.
86:11 Teach me Thy way, O LORD; I will walk in Thy truth:
86:12 I will praise Thee, O LORD my God, with all my heart: And I will glorify Thy name for evermore.
Song of the Lamb, as the overcomers praise Him.
For now something to think about or put it on the shelve, til next time when Revelation / Apocalypse continues.
Other than the reference to television this is an accurate description of what John wrote in Revelation 1-6.
"When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am a friend of its happiness: When these things can be said, then may the country boast its constitution and its government." -- Thomas Paine: The Rights Of Man (1791)
"You continue to refuse to explain why those of us who don't believe Jesus will return will be fooled by a fake Jesus. Such deception can only fool Christians."
I think this is a truth that Nancy simply can't get her head around.
"You continue to refuse to explain why those of us who don't believe Jesus will return will be fooled by a fake Jesus. Such deception can only fool Christians."
I think this is a truth that Nancy simply can't get her head around.
While I too would be interested in hearing her answer to this question, I think that her simple refusal to answer this question, is, in and of itself, an answer. Namely, that she is not talking to us here.
Which for me begs the question, who exactly is she talking to? I know who she thinks she is talking too, but I see no evidence of a secret, quiet cadre of Christian lurkers who are hanging off of Nancy's words here.
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