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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 6:27PM #391
G.flower
Posts: 3,598

May 24, 2012 -- 4:56PM, Ken wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:42PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 7:52PM, TPaine wrote:

Thanks a pant load, Ken. Now we're going to be told about how some line drawn through the churches of Asia will lead us to that great humanitarian (except for that genocide thing) Slobodan Milošević. Oh, wait, Milošević was a communist and an atheist. I guess some Christians overlook little things like that. Link



 Milošević was not an atheist. He is a member of the Serbian Orthodox Church, and is the 5th horseman. Belgrade and Pec are pointed to by the starguide, also Skopje, the ancient capital of Serbia.



He was, however, an evil bastard. Or do you deny that?




No, see prior post for proof. He was an atheist, he wanted no clergy present when he was buried because he was an atheist.


Another Serbian daily, Glas Javnosti, also notes the absence of family, pointing out that no religious ritual was performed during the ceremony. BBC


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4822930.stm

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 7:32PM #392
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

May 24, 2012 -- 5:03PM, Ken wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:56PM, Ken wrote:

How? I don't understand that business about "vectors." Where does it mention vectors in the Bible?


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Where does it mention any of that in the Bible? That is my question. I require exact citations.


When I ask a clear, specific question, I do not take kindly to asking it more than once. Once should be enough. Once should produce a complete and satisfactory response. I don't know why so many people on Beliefnet take it upon themselves to frustrate me.



OK, here it is, from Youngs literal translation:


19 `Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things;


20 the secret of the seven stars that thou hast seen upon my right hand, and the seven golden lamp-stands: the seven stars are messengers of the seven assemblies, and the seven lamp-stands that thou hast seen are seven assemblies.




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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 7:36PM #393
TPaine
Posts: 9,380

May 24, 2012 -- 4:34PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 8:22PM, Ken wrote:


I don't want to hear about drawing lines through things unless I am first shown where Revelation says to draw lines through things.



Why else would the 7 Asian churches be called stars and messengers?



Because they were in a position to spread the message John wanted spread among the Christians in Asia Minor.

"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 7:45PM #394
TPaine
Posts: 9,380

May 24, 2012 -- 4:46PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 7:40PM, TPaine wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:39PM, theinterpreter wrote:


Everything I say is in the Bible.


Jesus tells us that the 7 Asian churches are the 7 stars of the first vision in the right hand of Jesus.


And how does that get you to a "starguide"?


The 7 Asian churches are called stars and they guide us to all of the good things foretold (just like sailors of old used stars to guide them).



Navigation and prophesy have nothing to do with each other.


Wrong. The first vision (of the starguide in the right hand of Jesus) allows us to safely navigate through the Revelation.



Sailors of old (and still at times today) navigate on the oceans. Their position on the ocean can be learned by the location of the various constellations. Anyone with a basic knowledge of history and religion can navigate through Revelation. The location of various stars and constellations have nothing to do with it.

"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 8:57PM #395
TPaine
Posts: 9,380

May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:56PM, Ken wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:39PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 22, 2012 -- 8:07PM, Ken wrote:

And how does that get you to a "starguide"?



The 7 Asian churches are called stars and they guide us to all of the good things foretold (just like sailors of old used stars to guide them).


How? I don't understand that business about "vectors." Where does it mention vectors in the Bible?


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events, allowing us to safely navigate the Revelation. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Obviously, history was not your best subject. The church in Ephesus was founded before 50 CE. The church in Smyrna was founded near the beginning of Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. The church in Pergamon was also funded between 50 & 55 CE. The church in Thyatira was founded at the beginning of Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. The church in Sardis was also founded during Paul's third missionary journey between 52& 53 CE. The church in Philadelphia was founded during Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. Finally, the church at Laodicea was founded during Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. Therefore, all seven churches in Asia were founded over 50 years before John of Patmos wrote Revelation in 95 CE.




"The genius of the Constitution rests not in any static meaning it might have had in a world that is dead and gone, but in the adaptability of its great principles to cope with current problems and current needs." -- Justice William Brennan: Speech to the Text and Teaching Symposium at Georgetown University (October 12, 1985)
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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 9:19PM #396
wohali
Posts: 10,227

"Obviously, history was not your best subject"


I do love understatement.

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2 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 10:28PM #397
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 24, 2012 -- 7:32PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 5:03PM, Ken wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:56PM, Ken wrote:

How? I don't understand that business about "vectors." Where does it mention vectors in the Bible?


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Where does it mention any of that in the Bible? That is my question. I require exact citations.


When I ask a clear, specific question, I do not take kindly to asking it more than once. Once should be enough. Once should produce a complete and satisfactory response. I don't know why so many people on Beliefnet take it upon themselves to frustrate me.



OK, here it is, from Youngs literal translation:


19 `Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things;


20 the secret of the seven stars that thou hast seen upon my right hand, and the seven golden lamp-stands: the seven stars are messengers of the seven assemblies, and the seven lamp-stands that thou hast seen are seven assemblies.



Well, shucks, that doesn't say anything about vectors and drawing lines.

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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 2:36PM #398
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

May 24, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Ken wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 7:32PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 5:03PM, Ken wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:56PM, Ken wrote:

How? I don't understand that business about "vectors." Where does it mention vectors in the Bible?


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Where does it mention any of that in the Bible? That is my question. I require exact citations.


When I ask a clear, specific question, I do not take kindly to asking it more than once. Once should be enough. Once should produce a complete and satisfactory response. I don't know why so many people on Beliefnet take it upon themselves to frustrate me.



OK, here it is, from Youngs literal translation:


19 `Write the things that thou hast seen, and the things that are, and the things that are about to come after these things;


20 the secret of the seven stars that thou hast seen upon my right hand, and the seven golden lamp-stands: the seven stars are messengers of the seven assemblies, and the seven lamp-stands that thou hast seen are seven assemblies.



Well, shucks, that doesn't say anything about vectors and drawing lines.



It says the 7 stars are messengers of the 7 Asian churches, meaning their coordinates as in a star guide.  

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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 2:50PM #399
G.flower
Posts: 3,598

No, it means the churches that existed. It says nothing about stars or a guide. It plainly says what they are.


It says the stars are messengers and the lampstands are the assemblies.


 Therefore, all seven churches in Asia were founded over 50 years before John of Patmos wrote Revelation in 95 CE.


TPaine

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 3:16PM #400
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 25, 2012 -- 2:36PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Ken wrote:

Well, shucks, that doesn't say anything about vectors and drawing lines.


It says the 7 stars are messengers of the 7 Asian churches, meaning their coordinates as in a star guide.  



How do you know it means this? Where does it say that the seven stars are coordinates as in a star guide? This is what I'm looking for - the actual scriptural warrant for using the coordinates of the seven churches as a star guide.

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