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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 3:43PM #401
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

May 24, 2012 -- 8:57PM, TPaine wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:56PM, Ken wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:39PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 22, 2012 -- 8:07PM, Ken wrote:

And how does that get you to a "starguide"?



The 7 Asian churches are called stars and they guide us to all of the good things foretold (just like sailors of old used stars to guide them).


How? I don't understand that business about "vectors." Where does it mention vectors in the Bible?


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events, allowing us to safely navigate the Revelation. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Obviously, history was not your best subject. The church in Ephesus was founded before 50 CE. The church in Smyrna was founded near the beginning of Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. The church in Pergamon was also funded between 50 & 55 CE. The church in Thyatira was founded at the beginning of Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. The church in Sardis was also founded during Paul's third missionary journey between 52& 53 CE. The church in Philadelphia was founded during Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. Finally, the church at Laodicea was founded during Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. Therefore, all seven churches in Asia were founded over 50 years before John of Patmos wrote Revelation in 95 CE.






Horse hockey. The churches in Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, and Philadelphia are not mentioned anywhere else in the N.T., and therefore could not have been founded when you claim they were. They are not mentioned in Church archives until the late 1st century.

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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 3:52PM #402
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

May 25, 2012 -- 3:16PM, Ken wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 2:36PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Ken wrote:

Well, shucks, that doesn't say anything about vectors and drawing lines.


It says the 7 stars are messengers of the 7 Asian churches, meaning their coordinates as in a star guide.  



How do you know it means this? Where does it say that the seven stars are coordinates as in a star guide? This is what I'm looking for - the actual scriptural warrant for using the coordinates of the seven churches as a star guide.



The first vision must have some purpose.


It cannot be just a coincidence that the vectors of the 7 stars point to the 7 established Churches and to all of the good things prophesied including the capitals of the 5 horsemen, including the three historical capitals of the US (the 4th horseman). So that is the purpose of the first vision.

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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 3:59PM #403
G.flower
Posts: 3,598

May 25, 2012 -- 3:43PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 8:57PM, TPaine wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:56PM, Ken wrote:


May 23, 2012 -- 3:39PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 22, 2012 -- 8:07PM, Ken wrote:

And how does that get you to a "starguide"?



The 7 Asian churches are called stars and they guide us to all of the good things foretold (just like sailors of old used stars to guide them).


How? I don't understand that business about "vectors." Where does it mention vectors in the Bible?


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events, allowing us to safely navigate the Revelation. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Obviously, history was not your best subject. The church in Ephesus was founded before 50 CE. The church in Smyrna was founded near the beginning of Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. The church in Pergamon was also funded between 50 & 55 CE. The church in Thyatira was founded at the beginning of Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. The church in Sardis was also founded during Paul's third missionary journey between 52& 53 CE. The church in Philadelphia was founded during Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. Finally, the church at Laodicea was founded during Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. Therefore, all seven churches in Asia were founded over 50 years before John of Patmos wrote Revelation in 95 CE.






Horse hockey. The churches in Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, and Philadelphia are not mentioned anywhere else in the N.T., and therefore could not have been founded when you claim they were. They are not mentioned in Church archives until the late 1st century.




I wish you knew more about history and your religion and knew how to search for information:


The Seven Churches of Revelation, also known as The Seven Churches of the Apocalypse and The Seven Churches of Asia (referring to the Roman province of Asia, not the entire continent), are seven major churches of Early Christianity, as mentioned in the New Testament Book of Revelation and written to by Ignatius of Antioch. All seven sites are in modern-day Turkey and no longer have significant Christian populations since they were emptied of Christians under the Treaty of Lausanne. In Revelation, on the Greek island of PatmosJesus Christ instructs his servant John to: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."[1]


"Churches" in this context refers to the community of Christians living in each city, and not merely to the building or buildings in which they gathered for worship.[2][3]


Wikipedia


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_churches_of_...

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 4:29PM #404
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 25, 2012 -- 3:52PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:16PM, Ken wrote:

How do you know it means this? Where does it say that the seven stars are coordinates as in a star guide? This is what I'm looking for - the actual scriptural warrant for using the coordinates of the seven churches as a star guide.



The first vision must have some purpose.


It cannot be just a coincidence that the vectors of the 7 stars point to the 7 established Churches and to all of the good things prophesied including the capitals of the 5 horsemen, including the three historical capitals of the US (the 4th horseman). So that is the purpose of the first vision.



In other words, it says nothing about vectors and star guides. I thought not. And I suspect that you can make the vectors point to anything you want.

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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 4:46PM #405
TPaine
Posts: 9,306

May 25, 2012 -- 3:43PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 8:57PM, TPaine wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events, allowing us to safely navigate the Revelation. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Obviously, history was not your best subject. The church in Ephesus was founded before 50 CE. The church in Smyrna was founded near the beginning of Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. The church in Pergamon was also funded between 50 & 55 CE. The church in Thyatira was founded at the beginning of Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. The church in Sardis was also founded during Paul's third missionary journey between 52& 53 CE. The church in Philadelphia was founded during Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. Finally, the church at Laodicea was founded during Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. Therefore, all seven churches in Asia were founded over 50 years before John of Patmos wrote Revelation in 95 CE.


Horse hockey. The churches in Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, and Philadelphia are not mentioned anywhere else in the N.T., and therefore could not have been founded when you claim they were. They are not mentioned in Church archives until the late 1st century.



The only thing you have anywhere near right is that there were no actual church buildings in the first century CE. The people who made up the congregations met in homes or other such places, but since the idea of a church is a congregation of believers, all seven "churches" mentioned in Revelation existed since the time of Paul who died in 67 CE in Rome.

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  May 25, 2012 - 6:07PM #406
TPaine
Posts: 9,306

May 25, 2012 -- 3:52PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:16PM, Ken wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 2:36PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Ken wrote:

Well, shucks, that doesn't say anything about vectors and drawing lines.


It says the 7 stars are messengers of the 7 Asian churches, meaning their coordinates as in a star guide.  



How do you know it means this? Where does it say that the seven stars are coordinates as in a star guide? This is what I'm looking for - the actual scriptural warrant for using the coordinates of the seven churches as a star guide.


The first vision must have some purpose.


It cannot be just a coincidence that the vectors of the 7 stars point to the 7 established Churches and to all of the good things prophesied including the capitals of the 5 horsemen, including the three historical capitals of the US (the 4th horseman). So that is the purpose of the first vision.



"Must have some purpose" is not answering Ken's question. Where in Revelation can the words coordinates, vectors, and star guides found? The horsemen in Revelation are symbolic not literal. Since the United States declared its independence on July 4, 1776 it has had 9 capitals, not just 3.


Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: May 10, 1775 to December 12, 1776
Baltimore, Maryland: December 20, 1776 to February 27, 1777
Lancaster, Pennsylvania: September 27, 1777 (one day)
York, Pennsylvania: September 30, 1777 to June 2, 1778
Princeton, New Jersey: June 30, 1783 to November 4, 1783
Annapolis, Maryland: November 26, 1783 to August 19, 1784
Trenton, New Jersey: November 1, 1784 to December 24, 1784
New York City, New York: January 11, 1785 to Autumn 1788
Washington, D.C.: November 17, 1800 to December 8, 1815 to present

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 4:42PM #407
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

May 25, 2012 -- 6:07PM, TPaine wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:52PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:16PM, Ken wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 2:36PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Ken wrote:

Well, shucks, that doesn't say anything about vectors and drawing lines.


It says the 7 stars are messengers of the 7 Asian churches, meaning their coordinates as in a star guide.  



How do you know it means this? Where does it say that the seven stars are coordinates as in a star guide? This is what I'm looking for - the actual scriptural warrant for using the coordinates of the seven churches as a star guide.


The first vision must have some purpose.


It cannot be just a coincidence that the vectors of the 7 stars point to the 7 established Churches and to all of the good things prophesied including the capitals of the 5 horsemen, including the three historical capitals of the US (the 4th horseman). So that is the purpose of the first vision.



"Must have some purpose" is not answering Ken's question. Where in Revelation can the words coordinates, vectors, and star guides found? The horsemen in Revelation are symbolic not literal. Since the United States declared its independence on July 4, 1776 it has had 9 capitals, not just 3.


Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: May 10, 1775 to December 12, 1776
Baltimore, Maryland: December 20, 1776 to February 27, 1777
Lancaster, Pennsylvania: September 27, 1777 (one day)
York, Pennsylvania: September 30, 1777 to June 2, 1778
Princeton, New Jersey: June 30, 1783 to November 4, 1783
Annapolis, Maryland: November 26, 1783 to August 19, 1784
Trenton, New Jersey: November 1, 1784 to December 24, 1784
New York City, New York: January 11, 1785 to Autumn 1788
Washington, D.C.: November 17, 1800 to December 8, 1815 to present



Capitals for a day or two do not count. The three hitorical capitals of the US are New York City, Philadelphia and Washington, DC which are pointed to by one vector of the starguide, as are all the residences in which I have lived while writing my commentary on the Revolation. 

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2 years ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 4:47PM #408
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

May 26, 2012 -- 4:42PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 6:07PM, TPaine wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:52PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:16PM, Ken wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 2:36PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 10:28PM, Ken wrote:

Well, shucks, that doesn't say anything about vectors and drawing lines.


It says the 7 stars are messengers of the 7 Asian churches, meaning their coordinates as in a star guide.  



How do you know it means this? Where does it say that the seven stars are coordinates as in a star guide? This is what I'm looking for - the actual scriptural warrant for using the coordinates of the seven churches as a star guide.


The first vision must have some purpose.


It cannot be just a coincidence that the vectors of the 7 stars point to the 7 established Churches and to all of the good things prophesied including the capitals of the 5 horsemen, including the three historical capitals of the US (the 4th horseman). So that is the purpose of the first vision.



"Must have some purpose" is not answering Ken's question. Where in Revelation can the words coordinates, vectors, and star guides found? The horsemen in Revelation are symbolic not literal. Since the United States declared its independence on July 4, 1776 it has had 9 capitals, not just 3.


Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: May 10, 1775 to December 12, 1776
Baltimore, Maryland: December 20, 1776 to February 27, 1777
Lancaster, Pennsylvania: September 27, 1777 (one day)
York, Pennsylvania: September 30, 1777 to June 2, 1778
Princeton, New Jersey: June 30, 1783 to November 4, 1783
Annapolis, Maryland: November 26, 1783 to August 19, 1784
Trenton, New Jersey: November 1, 1784 to December 24, 1784
New York City, New York: January 11, 1785 to Autumn 1788
Washington, D.C.: November 17, 1800 to December 8, 1815 to present



Capitals for a day or two do not count. The three hitorical capitals of the US are New York City, Philadelphia and Washington, DC which are pointed to by one vector of the starguide, as are all the residences in which I have lived while writing my commentary on the Revolation. 





On the contrary, they count a great deal. Just ask the good folks of Guthrie, Oklahoma.  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guthrie,_Oklahoma#...

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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2 years ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 4:52PM #409
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

May 25, 2012 -- 4:46PM, TPaine wrote:


May 25, 2012 -- 3:43PM, theinterpreter wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 8:57PM, TPaine wrote:


May 24, 2012 -- 4:58PM, theinterpreter wrote:


It mentions stars which is the same thing to ancient navagators. The 7 stars form 21 vectors called great circles that circle the earth, bisecting many important cities and events, allowing us to safely navigate the Revelation. The reason Jesus did not return before 95 AD is because some of the Asian churches did not exist until then.



Obviously, history was not your best subject. The church in Ephesus was founded before 50 CE. The church in Smyrna was founded near the beginning of Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. The church in Pergamon was also funded between 50 & 55 CE. The church in Thyatira was founded at the beginning of Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. The church in Sardis was also founded during Paul's third missionary journey between 52& 53 CE. The church in Philadelphia was founded during Paul's second missionary journey in 49 CE. Finally, the church at Laodicea was founded during Paul's third missionary journey in either 52 or 53 CE. Therefore, all seven churches in Asia were founded over 50 years before John of Patmos wrote Revelation in 95 CE.


Horse hockey. The churches in Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, and Philadelphia are not mentioned anywhere else in the N.T., and therefore could not have been founded when you claim they were. They are not mentioned in Church archives until the late 1st century.



The only thing you have anywhere near right is that there were no actual church buildings in the first century CE. The people who made up the congregations met in homes or other such places, but since the idea of a church is a congregation of believers, all seven "churches" mentioned in Revelation existed since the time of Paul who died in 67 CE in Rome.



All 7 of the Asian churches did not exist in the time of Paul, as I have said before. That is why the Revelation could not have been received before 95 AD, as most commentators say.  

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2 years ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 5:54PM #410
Ken
Posts: 33,859

May 26, 2012 -- 4:42PM, theinterpreter wrote:

Capitals for a day or two do not count. The three hitorical capitals of the US are New York City, Philadelphia and Washington, DC which are pointed to by one vector of the starguide, as are all the residences in which I have lived while writing my commentary on the Revolation


You think that you are being singled out in Revelation?

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