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Switch to Forum Live View Apocalypse and Apostasy
2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 6:27PM #121
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:20PM, theinterpreter wrote:

The 5 horsemen are 5 Christian nations that, if the first ones are any indication, last for a thousand years and rule Jerusalem at some point. 



The Holy Roman Empire did not last a thousand years and did not rule Jerusalem. The British Empire did not last a thousand years either.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 9:03PM #122
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:27PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:20PM, theinterpreter wrote:

The 5 horsemen are 5 Christian nations that, if the first ones are any indication, last for a thousand years and rule Jerusalem at some point. 



The Holy Roman Empire did not last a thousand years and did not rule Jerusalem. The British Empire did not last a thousand years either.



The Holy Roman Empire lasted from 800 to 1806. The Holy Roman Empire ruled Rome when the Pope issued the plea for a crusade to the Holy Land.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 9:46PM #123
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:03PM, theinterpreter wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:27PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:20PM, theinterpreter wrote:

The 5 horsemen are 5 Christian nations that, if the first ones are any indication, last for a thousand years and rule Jerusalem at some point. 



The Holy Roman Empire did not last a thousand years and did not rule Jerusalem. The British Empire did not last a thousand years either.



The Holy Roman Empire lasted from 800 to 1806.


It lasted from 962 to 1806. Charlemagne's empire was not the Holy Roman Empire. It fell apart a generation after his death.


Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:03PM, theinterpreter wrote:

The Holy Roman Empire ruled Rome when the Pope issued the plea for a crusade to the Holy Land.


Nope. Pope Urban II openly detested the Holy Roman Empire and refused to be ruled by it.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 4:50PM #124
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:46PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:03PM, theinterpreter wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:27PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 25, 2012 -- 6:20PM, theinterpreter wrote:

The 5 horsemen are 5 Christian nations that, if the first ones are any indication, last for a thousand years and rule Jerusalem at some point. 



The Holy Roman Empire did not last a thousand years and did not rule Jerusalem. The British Empire did not last a thousand years either.



The Holy Roman Empire lasted from 800 to 1806.


It lasted from 962 to 1806. Charlemagne's empire was not the Holy Roman Empire. It fell apart a generation after his death.


Apr 25, 2012 -- 9:03PM, theinterpreter wrote:

The Holy Roman Empire ruled Rome when the Pope issued the plea for a crusade to the Holy Land.


Nope. Pope Urban II openly detested the Holy Roman Empire and refused to be ruled by it.



Historians credit Charlemagne with founding the Holy Roman Empire (albeit the word "Holy" was added later.


As for Urban II detesting the Holy Roman Empire, can you provide a link?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 5:56PM #125
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 26, 2012 -- 4:50PM, theinterpreter wrote:

Historians credit Charlemagne with founding the Holy Roman Empire (albeit the word "Holy" was added later.


They don't. Charlemagne's empire broke apart a few decades after his death. There was no continuity between it and the later Holy Roman Empire. Otto I wasn't even related to Charlemagne.


As for Urban II detesting the Holy Roman Empire, can you provide a link?


Go to Wikipedia and type "Urban II" into the search box.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 8:43AM #126
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 26, 2012 -- 9:55PM, NjoyAADAirbrush wrote:

Christian persecution is going on throughout the world. Here in America we are browbeat for the most part; yet, in other parts of the world people are being murdered, for their Christian faith.


I'm sorry, but you do not get to claim persecution. Historically, Christianity has more often been the persecutor than the persecuted. In this country, Christians have had everything their own way from the beginning. American Christians have nothing to complain about just because they're no longer allowed to deface public property with their tacky Nativity scenes, post their insipid Ten Commandments in every courthouse, and brainwash children in the public schools. Did you think you were going to push the rest of us around forever?


By the way, none of that stuff in Revelation is going to happen.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 7:51AM #127
G.flower
Posts: 3,598

In other parts of the world people are being raped and murdered and mutilated because they are women.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 10:06AM #128
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

Apr 26, 2012 -- 5:56PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 26, 2012 -- 4:50PM, theinterpreter wrote:

Historians credit Charlemagne with founding the Holy Roman Empire (albeit the word "Holy" was added later.



They don't. Charlemagne's empire broke apart a few decades after his death. There was no continuity between it and the later Holy Roman Empire. Otto I wasn't even related to Charlemagne.


They do. Otto I was a sucessor to Charlemagne. See encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Holy...


As for Urban II detesting the Holy Roman Empire, can you provide a link?


Go to Wikipedia and type "Urban II" into the search box.



I already did that. I didn't see anything about Urban I detesting the Holy Roman Empire. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 11:20AM #129
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 29, 2012 -- 10:06AM, theinterpreter wrote:


Apr 26, 2012 -- 5:56PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 26, 2012 -- 4:50PM, theinterpreter wrote:

Historians credit Charlemagne with founding the Holy Roman Empire (albeit the word "Holy" was added later.



They don't. Charlemagne's empire broke apart a few decades after his death. There was no continuity between it and the later Holy Roman Empire. Otto I wasn't even related to Charlemagne.


They do. Otto I was a sucessor to Charlemagne. See encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Holy...


Try reading your own reference. It begins:


Holy Roman Empire, designation for the political entity that originated at the coronation as emperor (962) of the German king Otto I and endured until the renunciation (1806) of the imperial title by Francis II
.


Apr 29, 2012 -- 10:06AM, theinterpreter wrote:


Apr 26, 2012 -- 5:56PM, Ken wrote:


Apr 26, 2012 -- 4:50PM, theinterpreter wrote:

As for Urban II detesting the Holy Roman Empire, can you provide a link?


Go to Wikipedia and type "Urban II" into the search box.


I already did that. I didn't see anything about Urban I detesting the Holy Roman Empire.


Then read it again. And this time type in "Urban II" instead of "Urban I."

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 29, 2012 - 12:28PM #130
TPaine
Posts: 9,339

"Ce corps qui s'appelait et qui s'appelle encore le saint empire romain n'était en aucune manière ni saint, ni romain, ni empire."
"This agglomeration which was called and which still calls itself the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire." -- Voltaire: Essai sur l'histoire générale et sur les mœurs et l'esprit des nations, Chapter 70 (1756)

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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