Post Reply
Page 1 of 9  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 9 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Faith IS Substance; Faith IS Evidence
2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 12:15AM #1
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,000

iama:  Biblical faith is as follows:

Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

"People exercise faith every day without realizing it.  They go to doctors, receive prescriptions they can't read, and take medicine they know very little about.  In fact most people do so without examining the doctor's credentials, questioning the validity of the prescription, or investigating the effects of the medicine.  They could be killing themselves, but they never think twice about it.  They simply trust that the doctor knows what he's doing and the medicine will help.  This is faith."

"However, such faith is insufficient when it comes to the big decisions of life: what college to go to, what career to pursue, whom to marry.  These are not things most people accept blindly.  They study the benefits of each college, prepare for careers, and think long and hard about whether to spend the rest of their lives with someone."

"One of the most important decisions we will ever make will be where we will spend eternity.  Yet many people never question their faith or evaluate what they are trusting in.  However, if we are going to make spiritual decisions -- life-or-death decisions -- that count for both time and eternity, we should be sure we understand what kind of faith God accepts."

"The New Testament defines faith in Hebrews 11:1: 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' Faith is, first of all, an understanding that what we believe is real and not an illusion, dream, or trick."

"This is why, throughout the New Testament, the writers challenged people to examine the evidence of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.  Luke, one of the Gospel writers, said at the beginning of the book bearing his name, 'having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order ... so that you might know the exact truth about the things you have been taught' (1:3-4 NASB)."

"Real faith is faith in real things.  It understands that what Jesus Christ did was historical fact, not fiction.  But biblical faith is even more. Hebrews 11:1 calls it 'substance.' Faith is substance.  It points to the reality of an assurance that rests securely in that in which it hopes.  It is a conviction that the historical facts are not merely true in the same, mundane way as the world history you learn in school; they are truth God has revealed so that we can know Him personally."

"But real faith is still more.  It is not merely knowing -- even being convinced -- that something is true; but it involves accepting it as true for you.  Not true for the church, not true for the preacher, not true for your parents, not true for your friends, but true for you."

"In the mid-1900s, famous daredevil Charles Blondin regularly thrilled audiences by walking a tightrope stretched across the rapids of Niagara Falls, with a man on his shoulders.  One day, as he was about to start across, he asked a man in the audience if the man believed Blondin would be successful."

"'Yes,' the man replied. 'You can do it!' He then asked him if he were sure that he could do it. 'Yes,' I'm really sure that you can do it!"

"'Good,' said Blondin, 'because my regular man isn't here today, and I need you to ride over on my shoulders.'"

"Now the man was faced with the real issue of faith.  He said he believed, but was he willing to stake his life on it?"

"You see, faith is not faith until it's all you're holding onto.  Our faith is only as good as that in which it is placed. That is why we must make sure it is placed in something that can do for us what it promises to do. No matter how much you may trust your parents, religion, church, rabbis, priests, or preachers, not one of them can give you eternal life when you die. They may be able to help you now; but they cannot help you afterward, for they too must die.  The problem is not that they don't want to help you.  The problem is that they have no power."

"The only One who can help you is God Himself who came here as a man to die in your place and pay the penalty for your sins.  He proved He has the power to give you life beyond the grave because He Himself conquered death and lives forever. He did what He promised He would do; and now He can do for you what He promises He will do: give you eternal life if you believe."

"Some may say, 'I don't know if I can do that.  My faith is not strong enough.' Let me answer that with a little story."

"A young boy had waited for the first big freeze of winter so he could ice skate.  Now that the big one had come, he ran down the snow-covered slopes to the lake, which was glistening with a newly formed layer of ice.  Confidently, he ran out on the ice.  But when he was only a few feet out, the ice cracked; and he fell in up to his waist. What went wrong? He had sincerely believed the ice would hold him.  The problem, of course, was not with his faith but, rather, with the object of his faith."

"After a few more freezes, he returned to the lake at the insistence of friends.  But now he was afraid to trust himself to the lake again. He reluctantly ventured out, nervous and trembling as he went. But do you know what? Despite his faltering faith, the ice held firm."

"You see, it is not the strength of our faith that matters but the strenteh of what we place our faith in. A weak faith may receive a strong Savior, for salvation does not depend on our power but on His."

"Have we trusted our life to Jesus Christ, Who can hold  us up forever? To do so, we must forsake every other thing we have trusted in and trust in Him alone. Faith in Christ is not faith until Christ is all we're holding onto.  But He is able to hold us forever, all the way through eternity."

- Randall Price

.


The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 3:40PM #2
Namchuck
Posts: 10,806

Feb 26, 2012 -- 12:15AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  Biblical faith is as follows:

Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

"People exercise faith every day without realizing it.  They go to doctors, receive prescriptions they can't read, and take medicine they know very little about.  In fact most people do so without examining the doctor's credentials, questioning the validity of the prescription, or investigating the effects of the medicine.  They could be killing themselves, but they never think twice about it.  They simply trust that the doctor knows what he's doing and the medicine will help.  This is faith."


What an appalling misunderstanding of faith you are conveying here, iama!


Nobody is denying the reality of the sort of every day 'faith' being spoken in the quote above. But the kind of faith that I have so obviously been talking about is of an entirely different kind altogether involving, as it does, belief in historical and metaphysical propositions without sufficient evidence.


When the evidence for a religious proposition is thin or nonexistent, or there is compelling evidence against it, the religious then invoke faith. Otherwise they simply cite their reasons for their belief. In other words, faith is simply the license the religious give themselves to keep believing when reasons fail.




"However, such faith is insufficient when it comes to the big decisions of life: what college to go to, what career to pursue, whom to marry.  These are not things most people accept blindly.  They study the benefits of each college, prepare for careers, and think long and hard about whether to spend the rest of their lives with someone."

"One of the most important decisions we will ever make will be where we will spend eternity.  Yet many people never question their faith or evaluate what they are trusting in.  However, if we are going to make spiritual decisions -- life-or-death decisions -- that count for both time and eternity, we should be sure we understand what kind of faith God accepts."

"The New Testament defines faith in Hebrews 11:1: 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' Faith is, first of all, an understanding that what we believe is real and not an illusion, dream, or trick."

"This is why, throughout the New Testament, the writers challenged people to examine the evidence of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.  Luke, one of the Gospel writers, said at the beginning of the book bearing his name, 'having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order ... so that you might know the exact truth about the things you have been taught' (1:3-4 NASB)."

"Real faith is faith in real things.  It understands that what Jesus Christ did was historical fact, not fiction.  But biblical faith is even more. Hebrews 11:1 calls it 'substance.' Faith is substance.  It points to the reality of an assurance that rests securely in that in which it hopes.  It is a conviction that the historical facts are not merely true in the same, mundane way as the world history you learn in school; they are truth God has revealed so that we can know Him personally."

"But real faith is still more.  It is not merely knowing -- even being convinced -- that something is true; but it involves accepting it as true for you.  Not true for the church, not true for the preacher, not true for your parents, not true for your friends, but true for you."

"In the mid-1900s, famous daredevil Charles Blondin regularly thrilled audiences by walking a tightrope stretched across the rapids of Niagara Falls, with a man on his shoulders.  One day, as he was about to start across, he asked a man in the audience if the man believed Blondin would be successful."

"'Yes,' the man replied. 'You can do it!' He then asked him if he were sure that he could do it. 'Yes,' I'm really sure that you can do it!"

"'Good,' said Blondin, 'because my regular man isn't here today, and I need you to ride over on my shoulders.'"

"Now the man was faced with the real issue of faith.  He said he believed, but was he willing to stake his life on it?"

"You see, faith is not faith until it's all you're holding onto.  Our faith is only as good as that in which it is placed. That is why we must make sure it is placed in something that can do for us what it promises to do. No matter how much you may trust your parents, religion, church, rabbis, priests, or preachers, not one of them can give you eternal life when you die. They may be able to help you now; but they cannot help you afterward, for they too must die.  The problem is not that they don't want to help you.  The problem is that they have no power."

"The only One who can help you is God Himself who came here as a man to die in your place and pay the penalty for your sins.  He proved He has the power to give you life beyond the grave because He Himself conquered death and lives forever. He did what He promised He would do; and now He can do for you what He promises He will do: give you eternal life if you believe."

"Some may say, 'I don't know if I can do that.  My faith is not strong enough.' Let me answer that with a little story."

"A young boy had waited for the first big freeze of winter so he could ice skate.  Now that the big one had come, he ran down the snow-covered slopes to the lake, which was glistening with a newly formed layer of ice.  Confidently, he ran out on the ice.  But when he was only a few feet out, the ice cracked; and he fell in up to his waist. What went wrong? He had sincerely believed the ice would hold him.  The problem, of course, was not with his faith but, rather, with the object of his faith."

"After a few more freezes, he returned to the lake at the insistence of friends.  But now he was afraid to trust himself to the lake again. He reluctantly ventured out, nervous and trembling as he went. But do you know what? Despite his faltering faith, the ice held firm."

"You see, it is not the strength of our faith that matters but the strenteh of what we place our faith in. A weak faith may receive a strong Savior, for salvation does not depend on our power but on His."

"Have we trusted our life to Jesus Christ, Who can hold  us up forever? To do so, we must forsake every other thing we have trusted in and trust in Him alone. Faith in Christ is not faith until Christ is all we're holding onto.  But He is able to hold us forever, all the way through eternity."

- Randall Price


It must be so handy to have others do all your thinking for you, but, I suppose, that is what religion and religious faith is all about. Mere mimicry, conformity and obedience to the dogma which undeniably leads to second-hand living. Faith is nothing less than the transparent acknowledgement that one's religious claims cannot stand on their own two feet.


I have also noted the robust refusal by those of faith to respond to this question: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?


See if you can respond to this question without falling back on the thoughts of others.

.





Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 4:34PM #3
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,865

Faith IS Substance; Faith IS Evidence


iamachildofhis #1...


Matthew 7:15 ...Jesus: A Tree and Its Fruit
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


Perhaps some sheep whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life can sneak in
to help between his daily posts in almost every topic in this "The Bible" community.

Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Feb 26, 2012 - 04:53PM
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 4:38PM #4
Namchuck
Posts: 10,806

Feb 26, 2012 -- 4:34PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


Faith IS Substance; Faith IS Evidence


iamachildofhis #1...


Matthew 7:15 ...Jesus: A Tree and Its Fruit
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


Perhaps some sheep whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life can sneak in
to help between his daily posts in almost every topic in this "The Bible" community.




So, Rgurley4,


I think 1st Corinthians 13:1 speaks of the kind of believer you appear to be.."Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."



Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Feb 26, 2012 - 04:58PM
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 6:12PM #5
Namchuck
Posts: 10,806

Feb 26, 2012 -- 4:38PM, Namchuck wrote:


Feb 26, 2012 -- 4:34PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


Faith IS Substance; Faith IS Evidence


iamachildofhis #1...


Matthew 7:15 ...Jesus: A Tree and Its Fruit
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


Perhaps some sheep whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life can sneak in
to help between his daily posts in almost every topic in this "The Bible" community.




So, Rgurley4,


I think 1st Corinthians 13:1 speaks of the kind of believer you appear to be..."Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."







Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 7:55PM #6
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,865

I have "charity"...spiritual love.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 8:05PM #7
Namchuck
Posts: 10,806

Feb 26, 2012 -- 7:55PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


I have "charity"...spiritual love.




Yes, but the religiose write many a cheque with their tongues that their conduct cannot cash.

Moderated by world citizen on Mar 03, 2012 - 02:17PM
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 9:33PM #8
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,000

Feb 26, 2012 -- 3:40PM, Namchuck wrote:



iama:  Biblical faith is as follows:

Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

"People exercise faith every day without realizing it.  They go to doctors, receive prescriptions they can't read, and take medicine they know very little about.  In fact most people do so without examining the doctor's credentials, questioning the validity of the prescription, or investigating the effects of the medicine.  They could be killing themselves, but they never think twice about it.  They simply trust that the doctor knows what he's doing and the medicine will help.  This is faith."


Namchuck: What an appalling misunderstanding of faith you are conveying here, iama!



iama:  The, above paragraph, should be stating that "people exercise BELIEF" every day without realizing it".  The faith, according to Hebrews 1:1 should be understood as "doctors" and "prescriptions."  Why? What / who is it that the people are believing? They are believing the "doctors" and their prescribed "prescriptions". What we BELIEVE is THE FAITH, be it the medicine which we swallow, squirt up our noses, drop into our eyes, rub onto our skin, etc., or Christ Jesus and His purchased Salvation.  


Namchuck: Nobody is denying the reality of the sort of every day 'faith' being spoken in the quote above.



iama: "Faith" is a noun.  We can speak of the "doctor" as a "faith" whom we might trust and believe.  The "prescription" as a "faith" which we might trust and believe will benefit our physical bodies. The Faith Who is offered to give to human beings SALVATION from eternal separation from our Creator-God - Father-Son-Holy Spirit, is no different from the "doctor" prescribing medicine.  There are many human beings who go to a "doctor," receive a "prescription," go home, and never fill the "prescription", and even some who fill the "prescription," take it home, but never take it. Why? It is a matter of unbelief!                                              


Namchuck: But the kind of faith that I have so obviously been talking about is of an entirely different kind altogether involving, as it does, belief in historical and metaphysical propositions without sufficient evidence.



iama:  The Faith, Who CAME is Christ Jesus, and He is our Savior.  


I take The Bible (which is the topic of this Forum) as being 100% historically accurate, reality history regarding the data recorded of the people involved.  The biblical text is reliable regarding all that it relates to.


Christ Jesus is all that The Bible records Him to be, and much much more - He is God-Son, incarnate, eternally the God-Man.


The crux of the matter - "historical," "evidence and substance," or mythological stories having no "historical" "evidence and substance." 


I take The Bible's New Testament recordings as the "evidence and substance," referred to by the recorder of Hebrews 1:1.


There is "sufficient evidence," but it all comes down to the spirit-heart action of believing or not believing The Bible.


Christ Jesus anticipated the UNBELIEF of human beings:


Jhn 20:24-29     
"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, 'We have seen the Lord'.


But he said unto them, 'Except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into His side, I will not believe.'


And after eight days again His disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.


Then said He to Thomas, 'Reach hither your finger, and behold My hands; and reach hither your hand, and thrust [it] into My side: and be not faithless, but believing.'


And Thomas answered and said unto Him, 'My Lord and my God.'


Jesus said unto him, 'Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed:


blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.'"


You see, our Creator-God has given to His created human beings, two evidences which reveal Him to us:


- The Creation which evidences His power and intelligent Godhead


- The Bible which reveals the evidences of His power and intelligent Godhead as He has interacted with those humans as they are recorded in The Bible.


Here is what He stated to His disciples prior to Calvary, His death, burial and resurrection. Notice what is not going to be believed by human beings who haven't physically witnessed what the Apostles and other first century believers had witnessed. God-Holy Spirit is here, speaking via The Bible's truths, which He inspired to be recorded, to convince / convict / reprove, unbelievers:


Jhn 16:7-11           
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you. And when He is come,


He will reprove the world


- of sin, and


- of righteousness, and


- of judgment:


Of sin,


----- because they believe not on Me;


Of righteousness,


----- because I go to My Father, and you see Me no more;


Of judgment,


----- because the prince of this world is judged."                                                                                                                               


Namchuck: When the evidence for a religious proposition is thin or nonexistent, or there is compelling evidence against it, the religious then invoke faith. Otherwise they simply cite their reasons for their belief. In other words, faith is simply the license the religious give themselves to keep believing when reasons fail.



iama: NO!


You aren't accepting that there is "THE FAITH package" which is given to us, humans, via The Bible. "THE FAITH package" begins with Genesis 1:1 and continues through unto the end of Revelation.  You, either believe "THE FAITH" package, or you don't.


"THE FAITH" package revealed to us in The Bible has been historically evaluated by archaeologists regarding the historical place names and human beings related.  What can't be validated, scientifically, are the miracles which are recorded throughout The Bible.  The human beings making the God-Holy Spirit recordings, being there, and recording their occurrences, are giving to us, readers, their observations via their five senses.  We can't say, like Thomas did, that we "won't believe unless we can put our finger into...," but we can choose to believe THE FAITH which has been recorded, as being TRUE.


You, also, must realize and accept the testimonies of current BELIEVERS who, having BELIEVED unto THE FAITH evidenced via The Bible accounts, have been witnesses to "the power" of Salvation in Christ Jesus.


If  you have access to the March 2012 National Geographic Magazine, read what is stated about the Apostle Thomas.                                            


iama: "However, such faith is insufficient when it comes to the big decisions of life: what college to go to, what career to pursue, whom to marry.  These are not things most people accept blindly.  They study the benefits of each college, prepare for careers, and think long and hard about whether to spend the rest of their lives with someone."

"One of the most important decisions we will ever make will be where we will spend eternity.  Yet many people never question their faith or evaluate what they are trusting in.  However, if we are going to make spiritual decisions -- life-or-death decisions -- that count for both time and eternity, we should be sure we understand what kind of faith God accepts."

"The New Testament defines faith in Hebrews 11:1: 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' Faith is, first of all, an understanding that what we believe is real and not an illusion, dream, or trick."

"This is why, throughout the New Testament, the writers challenged people to examine the evidence of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.  Luke, one of the Gospel writers, said at the beginning of the book bearing his name, 'having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order ... so that you might know the exact truth about the things you have been taught' (1:3-4 NASB)."

"Real faith is faith in real things.  It understands that what Jesus Christ did was historical fact, not fiction.  But biblical faith is even more. Hebrews 11:1 calls it 'substance.' Faith is substance.  It points to the reality of an assurance that rests securely in that in which it hopes.  It is a conviction that the historical facts are not merely true in the same, mundane way as the world history you learn in school; they are truth God has revealed so that we can know Him personally."

"But real faith is still more.  It is not merely knowing -- even being convinced -- that something is true; but it involves accepting it as true for you.  Not true for the church, not true for the preacher, not true for your parents, not true for your friends, but true for you."

"In the mid-1900s, famous daredevil Charles Blondin regularly thrilled audiences by walking a tightrope stretched across the rapids of Niagara Falls, with a man on his shoulders.  One day, as he was about to start across, he asked a man in the audience if the man believed Blondin would be successful."

"'Yes,' the man replied. 'You can do it!' He then asked him if he were sure that he could do it. 'Yes,' I'm really sure that you can do it!"

"'Good,' said Blondin, 'because my regular man isn't here today, and I need you to ride over on my shoulders.'"

"Now the man was faced with the real issue of faith.  He said he believed, but was he willing to stake his life on it?"

"You see, faith is not faith until it's all you're holding onto.  Our faith is only as good as that in which it is placed. That is why we must make sure it is placed in something that can do for us what it promises to do. No matter how much you may trust your parents, religion, church, rabbis, priests, or preachers, not one of them can give you eternal life when you die. They may be able to help you now; but they cannot help you afterward, for they too must die.  The problem is not that they don't want to help you.  The problem is that they have no power."

"The only One who can help you is God Himself who came here as a man to die in your place and pay the penalty for your sins.  He proved He has the power to give you life beyond the grave because He Himself conquered death and lives forever. He did what He promised He would do; and now He can do for you what He promises He will do: give you eternal life if you believe."

"Some may say, 'I don't know if I can do that.  My faith is not strong enough.' Let me answer that with a little story."

"A young boy had waited for the first big freeze of winter so he could ice skate.  Now that the big one had come, he ran down the snow-covered slopes to the lake, which was glistening with a newly formed layer of ice.  Confidently, he ran out on the ice.  But when he was only a few feet out, the ice cracked; and he fell in up to his waist. What went wrong? He had sincerely believed the ice would hold him.  The problem, of course, was not with his faith but, rather, with the object of his faith."

"After a few more freezes, he returned to the lake at the insistence of friends.  But now he was afraid to trust himself to the lake again. He reluctantly ventured out, nervous and trembling as he went. But do you know what? Despite his faltering faith, the ice held firm."

"You see, it is not the strength of our faith that matters but the strenteh of what we place our faith in. A weak faith may receive a strong Savior, for salvation does not depend on our power but on His."

"Have we trusted our life to Jesus Christ, Who can hold  us up forever? To do so, we must forsake every other thing we have trusted in and trust in Him alone. Faith in Christ is not faith until Christ is all we're holding onto.  But He is able to hold us forever, all the way through eternity."

- Randall Price



Namchuck: It must be so handy to have others do all your thinking for you, but, I suppose, that is what religion and religious faith is all about. Mere mimicry, conformity and obedience to the dogma which undeniably leads to second-hand living. Faith is nothing less than the transparent acknowledgement that one's religious claims cannot stand on their own two feet.



iama: I stand upon the claims of God in Christ Jesus.  What "religious claims" do you stand upon which are more solid than those of Christ Jesus?


Human beings are, already, "second hand" beings. We have been used by Satan and his minions.


Christ Jesus promises to set us free from "the bondage of sin and death". He did it for His Apostles and the first Christians which we read about in The New Testament document, and He has been accomplishing the same, since, in millions and billions of human believers. That truth has been documented over and over again!


Namchuck: I have also noted the robust refusal by those of faith to respond to this question: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?



iama:  Okay, what is "the faith" package of Mormons? of Hindus? or Humanists? of Buddhists? of (which one do you believe)?


Christ Jesus died / was murdered, was buried, and rose from death into a resurrection body. Do you know of another "faith" package of a religion which can accomplish a resurrection body? a Savior unto eternal LIFE? power to overcome sin / evil desires in the here and now? 


There are graves all over the world of supposed-religious leaders. They died, and they are still dead!  Christ Jesus died and rose from death and ascended back to the right hand of The Father-God. 


Ask the Apostle Thomas. He saw and he believed the resurrection of Christ Jesus - "My Lord and my God!"


Ask the apostle Paul.  He conversed with Christ Jesus of Nazareth - the resurrected Christ Jesus of Nazareth - was converted / turned around / repented of his killing Christians, and became a missionary to the Mediterranean nations to the North.  This Pharisee knew his Old Testament Scriptures well, went into Arabia for several years, was taught by God-Holy Spirit to understand the OT Scriptures as they related to Christ Jesus, and spread the Good News of The Gospel re: The Messiah of Israel - The Savior of The World.


Ask the Apostle John, who stuck with Christ Jesus when all of the other disciples abandoned Him throughout the mock trial and crucifixion.  He recorded The Gospel of John, the three Epistles of John and Revelation.  Several of John's students' writings are available to us, today, testifying to John's authenticity.


Ask Jesus' brothers, James and Jude.  They didn't believe that their half-brother was the Messiah, until after His resurrection.  They each recorded an Epistle of The New Testament. They had become believers in Christ Jesus - God-Son, incarnate.


Namchuck: See if you can respond to this question without falling back on the thoughts of others.



iama: What you need to alter in your thinking is this:


-  all faiths are outside of ourselves, until we internalize them, by believing them!


If you believe "the faith of a specific chair," and you sit in it, then you have internalized "the faith of a specific chair." If you sit on a specific chair and it collapses, "the faith of that chair" isn't going to be believed, next time that you want to sit down.  You will choose another chair to sit on - one which has been tested and found reliable as a chair.


Christ Jesus' faith has been tested and tried by those who walked 3.5 years with Him and watched all that He did and heard all that He said. We have their recorded records of their message to us - "Christ Jesus' faith" package - and it is the "substance" and the "evidence" of Christ Jesus - Christ Jesus' FAITH.  We are invited to BELIEVE Christ Jesus' FAITH PACKAGE.


The Bible speaks of:


- the faith of God / God's faith


- the faith of Christ Jesus / Christ Jesus' faith


- his faith / your faith / my faith: the believer's "THE FAITH" package into which he / she has been made a member by God-Holy Spirit regeneration.  He / she has become a part of "THE FAITH package".  The reality happening of a human being becoming a child of God / a regenerated human being / a member of God's Kingdom, give him / her the right to speak of "my faith," "your faith," "his faith."



Read through the following references, all of which include the term "faith." How is the term defined? How is the term used?  Remember that, initially, THE FAITH / Christ Jesus' FAITH exists OUTSIDE OF THE human being.  Once God-Holy Spirit regeneration takes place within the human spirit-heart, that human being has moved out of the realm of Satan's kingdom, into the realm of God's Kingdom.



Blue Letter Bible re: faith



Faith defined blueletterbible.com:


a) relating to God


1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ


b) relating to Christ


1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God


c) the religious beliefs of Christians



Here is an interesting question that Christ Jesus asked His disciples after He had stilled the storm on the Sea of Galilee:


Luk 8:25           
"And He said unto them, 'Where is your faith?'


And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of Man is this! for He commanded even the winds and water, and they obey Him."


One wonders just why they awoke the sleeping Jesus!


Their FAITH should have been Christ Jesus, Himself.  Can a boat sink if the sleeping Christ Jesus is in it?


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2012 - 1:08AM #9
Namchuck
Posts: 10,806

I've told you, iama, I'm just not interested in sermons based on legends and fables.


If there are any questions you want to ask me, put them plainly and I'll do my best to answer them.


My conclusion stands. All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, it is of no value.




Mar 2, 2012 -- 9:33PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Feb 26, 2012 -- 3:40PM, Namchuck wrote:



iama:  Biblical faith is as follows:

Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

"People exercise faith every day without realizing it.  They go to doctors, receive prescriptions they can't read, and take medicine they know very little about.  In fact most people do so without examining the doctor's credentials, questioning the validity of the prescription, or investigating the effects of the medicine.  They could be killing themselves, but they never think twice about it.  They simply trust that the doctor knows what he's doing and the medicine will help.  This is faith."


Namchuck: What an appalling misunderstanding of faith you are conveying here, iama!



iama:  The, above paragraph, should be stating that "people exercise BELIEF" every day without realizing it".  The faith, according to Hebrews 1:1 should be understood as "doctors" and "prescriptions."  Why? What / who is it that the people are believing? They are believing the "doctors" and their prescribed "prescriptions". What we BELIEVE is THE FAITH, be it the medicine which we swallow, squirt up our noses, drop into our eyes, rub onto our skin, etc., or Christ Jesus and His purchased Salvation.  


Namchuck: Nobody is denying the reality of the sort of every day 'faith' being spoken in the quote above.



iama: "Faith" is a noun.  We can speak of the "doctor" as a "faith" whom we might trust and believe.  The "prescription" as a "faith" which we might trust and believe will benefit our physical bodies. The Faith Who is offered to give to human beings SALVATION from eternal separation from our Creator-God - Father-Son-Holy Spirit, is no different from the "doctor" prescribing medicine.  There are many human beings who go to a "doctor," receive a "prescription," go home, and never fill the "prescription", and even some who fill the "prescription," take it home, but never take it. Why? It is a matter of unbelief!                                              


Namchuck: But the kind of faith that I have so obviously been talking about is of an entirely different kind altogether involving, as it does, belief in historical and metaphysical propositions without sufficient evidence.



iama:  The Faith, Who CAME is Christ Jesus, and He is our Savior.  


I take The Bible (which is the topic of this Forum) as being 100% historically accurate, reality history regarding the data recorded of the people involved.  The biblical text is reliable regarding all that it relates to.


Christ Jesus is all that The Bible records Him to be, and much much more - He is God-Son, incarnate, eternally the God-Man.


The crux of the matter - "historical," "evidence and substance," or mythological stories having no "historical" "evidence and substance." 


I take The Bible's New Testament recordings as the "evidence and substance," referred to by the recorder of Hebrews 1:1.


There is "sufficient evidence," but it all comes down to the spirit-heart action of believing or not believing The Bible.


Christ Jesus anticipated the UNBELIEF of human beings:


Jhn 20:24-29     
"But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, 'We have seen the Lord'.


But he said unto them, 'Except I shall see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into His side, I will not believe.'


And after eight days again His disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.


Then said He to Thomas, 'Reach hither your finger, and behold My hands; and reach hither your hand, and thrust [it] into My side: and be not faithless, but believing.'


And Thomas answered and said unto Him, 'My Lord and my God.'


Jesus said unto him, 'Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed:


blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.'"


You see, our Creator-God has given to His created human beings, two evidences which reveal Him to us:


- The Creation which evidences His power and intelligent Godhead


- The Bible which reveals the evidences of His power and intelligent Godhead as He has interacted with those humans as they are recorded in The Bible.


Here is what He stated to His disciples prior to Calvary, His death, burial and resurrection. Notice what is not going to be believed by human beings who haven't physically witnessed what the Apostles and other first century believers had witnessed. God-Holy Spirit is here, speaking via The Bible's truths, which He inspired to be recorded, to convince / convict / reprove, unbelievers:


Jhn 16:7-11           
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you. And when He is come,


He will reprove the world


- of sin, and


- of righteousness, and


- of judgment:


Of sin,


----- because they believe not on Me;


Of righteousness,


----- because I go to My Father, and you see Me no more;


Of judgment,


----- because the prince of this world is judged."                                                                                                                               


Namchuck: When the evidence for a religious proposition is thin or nonexistent, or there is compelling evidence against it, the religious then invoke faith. Otherwise they simply cite their reasons for their belief. In other words, faith is simply the license the religious give themselves to keep believing when reasons fail.



iama: NO!


You aren't accepting that there is "THE FAITH package" which is given to us, humans, via The Bible. "THE FAITH package" begins with Genesis 1:1 and continues through unto the end of Revelation.  You, either believe "THE FAITH" package, or you don't.


"THE FAITH" package revealed to us in The Bible has been historically evaluated by archaeologists regarding the historical place names and human beings related.  What can't be validated, scientifically, are the miracles which are recorded throughout The Bible.  The human beings making the God-Holy Spirit recordings, being there, and recording their occurrences, are giving to us, readers, their observations via their five senses.  We can't say, like Thomas did, that we "won't believe unless we can put our finger into...," but we can choose to believe THE FAITH which has been recorded, as being TRUE.


You, also, must realize and accept the testimonies of current BELIEVERS who, having BELIEVED unto THE FAITH evidenced via The Bible accounts, have been witnesses to "the power" of Salvation in Christ Jesus.


If  you have access to the March 2012 National Geographic Magazine, read what is stated about the Apostle Thomas.                                            


iama: "However, such faith is insufficient when it comes to the big decisions of life: what college to go to, what career to pursue, whom to marry.  These are not things most people accept blindly.  They study the benefits of each college, prepare for careers, and think long and hard about whether to spend the rest of their lives with someone."

"One of the most important decisions we will ever make will be where we will spend eternity.  Yet many people never question their faith or evaluate what they are trusting in.  However, if we are going to make spiritual decisions -- life-or-death decisions -- that count for both time and eternity, we should be sure we understand what kind of faith God accepts."

"The New Testament defines faith in Hebrews 11:1: 'Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' Faith is, first of all, an understanding that what we believe is real and not an illusion, dream, or trick."

"This is why, throughout the New Testament, the writers challenged people to examine the evidence of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection.  Luke, one of the Gospel writers, said at the beginning of the book bearing his name, 'having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order ... so that you might know the exact truth about the things you have been taught' (1:3-4 NASB)."

"Real faith is faith in real things.  It understands that what Jesus Christ did was historical fact, not fiction.  But biblical faith is even more. Hebrews 11:1 calls it 'substance.' Faith is substance.  It points to the reality of an assurance that rests securely in that in which it hopes.  It is a conviction that the historical facts are not merely true in the same, mundane way as the world history you learn in school; they are truth God has revealed so that we can know Him personally."

"But real faith is still more.  It is not merely knowing -- even being convinced -- that something is true; but it involves accepting it as true for you.  Not true for the church, not true for the preacher, not true for your parents, not true for your friends, but true for you."

"In the mid-1900s, famous daredevil Charles Blondin regularly thrilled audiences by walking a tightrope stretched across the rapids of Niagara Falls, with a man on his shoulders.  One day, as he was about to start across, he asked a man in the audience if the man believed Blondin would be successful."

"'Yes,' the man replied. 'You can do it!' He then asked him if he were sure that he could do it. 'Yes,' I'm really sure that you can do it!"

"'Good,' said Blondin, 'because my regular man isn't here today, and I need you to ride over on my shoulders.'"

"Now the man was faced with the real issue of faith.  He said he believed, but was he willing to stake his life on it?"

"You see, faith is not faith until it's all you're holding onto.  Our faith is only as good as that in which it is placed. That is why we must make sure it is placed in something that can do for us what it promises to do. No matter how much you may trust your parents, religion, church, rabbis, priests, or preachers, not one of them can give you eternal life when you die. They may be able to help you now; but they cannot help you afterward, for they too must die.  The problem is not that they don't want to help you.  The problem is that they have no power."

"The only One who can help you is God Himself who came here as a man to die in your place and pay the penalty for your sins.  He proved He has the power to give you life beyond the grave because He Himself conquered death and lives forever. He did what He promised He would do; and now He can do for you what He promises He will do: give you eternal life if you believe."

"Some may say, 'I don't know if I can do that.  My faith is not strong enough.' Let me answer that with a little story."

"A young boy had waited for the first big freeze of winter so he could ice skate.  Now that the big one had come, he ran down the snow-covered slopes to the lake, which was glistening with a newly formed layer of ice.  Confidently, he ran out on the ice.  But when he was only a few feet out, the ice cracked; and he fell in up to his waist. What went wrong? He had sincerely believed the ice would hold him.  The problem, of course, was not with his faith but, rather, with the object of his faith."

"After a few more freezes, he returned to the lake at the insistence of friends.  But now he was afraid to trust himself to the lake again. He reluctantly ventured out, nervous and trembling as he went. But do you know what? Despite his faltering faith, the ice held firm."

"You see, it is not the strength of our faith that matters but the strenteh of what we place our faith in. A weak faith may receive a strong Savior, for salvation does not depend on our power but on His."

"Have we trusted our life to Jesus Christ, Who can hold  us up forever? To do so, we must forsake every other thing we have trusted in and trust in Him alone. Faith in Christ is not faith until Christ is all we're holding onto.  But He is able to hold us forever, all the way through eternity."

- Randall Price



Namchuck: It must be so handy to have others do all your thinking for you, but, I suppose, that is what religion and religious faith is all about. Mere mimicry, conformity and obedience to the dogma which undeniably leads to second-hand living. Faith is nothing less than the transparent acknowledgement that one's religious claims cannot stand on their own two feet.



iama: I stand upon the claims of God in Christ Jesus.  What "religious claims" do you stand upon which are more solid than those of Christ Jesus?


Human beings are, already, "second hand" beings. We have been used by Satan and his minions.


Christ Jesus promises to set us free from "the bondage of sin and death". He did it for His Apostles and the first Christians which we read about in The New Testament document, and He has been accomplishing the same, since, in millions and billions of human believers. That truth has been documented over and over again!


Namchuck: I have also noted the robust refusal by those of faith to respond to this question: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?



iama:  Okay, what is "the faith" package of Mormons? of Hindus? or Humanists? of Buddhists? of (which one do you believe)?


Christ Jesus died / was murdered, was buried, and rose from death into a resurrection body. Do you know of another "faith" package of a religion which can accomplish a resurrection body? a Savior unto eternal LIFE? power to overcome sin / evil desires in the here and now? 


There are graves all over the world of supposed-religious leaders. They died, and they are still dead!  Christ Jesus died and rose from death and ascended back to the right hand of The Father-God. 


Ask the Apostle Thomas. He saw and he believed the resurrection of Christ Jesus - "My Lord and my God!"


Ask the apostle Paul.  He conversed with Christ Jesus of Nazareth - the resurrected Christ Jesus of Nazareth - was converted / turned around / repented of his killing Christians, and became a missionary to the Mediterranean nations to the North.  This Pharisee knew his Old Testament Scriptures well, went into Arabia for several years, was taught by God-Holy Spirit to understand the OT Scriptures as they related to Christ Jesus, and spread the Good News of The Gospel re: The Messiah of Israel - The Savior of The World.


Ask the Apostle John, who stuck with Christ Jesus when all of the other disciples abandoned Him throughout the mock trial and crucifixion.  He recorded The Gospel of John, the three Epistles of John and Revelation.  Several of John's students' writings are available to us, today, testifying to John's authenticity.


Ask Jesus' brothers, James and Jude.  They didn't believe that their half-brother was the Messiah, until after His resurrection.  They each recorded an Epistle of The New Testament. They had become believers in Christ Jesus - God-Son, incarnate.


Namchuck: See if you can respond to this question without falling back on the thoughts of others.



iama: What you need to alter in your thinking is this:


-  all faiths are outside of ourselves, until we internalize them, by believing them!


If you believe "the faith of a specific chair," and you sit in it, then you have internalized "the faith of a specific chair." If you sit on a specific chair and it collapses, "the faith of that chair" isn't going to be believed, next time that you want to sit down.  You will choose another chair to sit on - one which has been tested and found reliable as a chair.


Christ Jesus' faith has been tested and tried by those who walked 3.5 years with Him and watched all that He did and heard all that He said. We have their recorded records of their message to us - "Christ Jesus' faith" package - and it is the "substance" and the "evidence" of Christ Jesus - Christ Jesus' FAITH.  We are invited to BELIEVE Christ Jesus' FAITH PACKAGE.


The Bible speaks of:


- the faith of God / God's faith


- the faith of Christ Jesus / Christ Jesus' faith


- his faith / your faith / my faith: the believer's "THE FAITH" package into which he / she has been made a member by God-Holy Spirit regeneration.  He / she has become a part of "THE FAITH package".  The reality happening of a human being becoming a child of God / a regenerated human being / a member of God's Kingdom, give him / her the right to speak of "my faith," "your faith," "his faith."



Read through the following references, all of which include the term "faith." How is the term defined? How is the term used?  Remember that, initially, THE FAITH / Christ Jesus' FAITH exists OUTSIDE OF THE human being.  Once God-Holy Spirit regeneration takes place within the human spirit-heart, that human being has moved out of the realm of Satan's kingdom, into the realm of God's Kingdom.



Blue Letter Bible re: faith



Faith defined blueletterbible.com:


a) relating to God


1) the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ


b) relating to Christ


1) a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God


c) the religious beliefs of Christians



Here is an interesting question that Christ Jesus asked His disciples after He had stilled the storm on the Sea of Galilee:


Luk 8:25           
"And He said unto them, 'Where is your faith?'


And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of Man is this! for He commanded even the winds and water, and they obey Him."


One wonders just why they awoke the sleeping Jesus!


Their FAITH should have been Christ Jesus, Himself.  Can a boat sink if the sleeping Christ Jesus is in it?


.





Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2012 - 1:51AM #10
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,000

Mar 3, 2012 -- 1:08AM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck: I've told you, iama, I'm just not interested in sermons based on legends and fables.


If there are any questions you want to ask me, put them plainly and I'll do my best to answer them.


My conclusion stands. All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, it is of no value.



iama: I have failed to get the message across to you, obviously!


Every religion has ITS OWN FAITH which its members / adherents BELIEVE.  Therefore, every religion practiced on this Earth has its own FAITH TENANTS, which makes each religion different from every other religion, because WHAT IS BELIEVED, is different from that BELIEVED by every other religion.


What is BELIEVING?  Believing is a soul-spirit-mind ACTION which, then, governs all other related decisions of that human being.


Does it, then, make any sense to you, that NOT ALL BELIEFS / FAITHS produce the results which are claimed by those religions?


Only THE FAITH which is actually backed up by a reality-entity capable of fulfilling The Faith proclaimed, is a valid FAITH!


A human being can believe anything which he / she chooses to believe - any "faith" - but if that "faith" has no power-ENTITY capable of performing the said "faith" promises, then, the believing is a useless soul-spirit-mind activity!


That said, there are evil spirit beings which are capable of deceiving human beings through many religions which exist!


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 9  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 9 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook