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Switch to Forum Live View 2012 in Bible Prophecy
2 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2012 - 5:05AM #161
Namchuck
Posts: 11,266

Aug 29, 2012 -- 4:16PM, theinterpreter wrote:




None of the symbolism of the Revelation is taken from the writings of Ezekial and Zechariah, maybe a little bit from Daniel. The Revelation almost entirely stands on its own.




Oh dear, wrong again!


In a number of brilliant writings, the New Testament scholar, Henk Jan de Jonge, has forcefully shown just how influential the Book of Ezekiel was on many later biblical writings including, most notably, and as Tpaine has amply demonstrated, the Book of Revelations. 


I would pose the question again, how can someone so consistently wrong expect to be taken seriously?


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2 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2012 - 12:00PM #162
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Namchuck:


"I would pose the question again, how can someone so consistently wrong expect to be taken seriously?"


Just because it needs to be repeated.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2012 - 6:27PM #163
theinterpreter
Posts: 1,699

Aug 29, 2012 -- 8:24PM, TPaine wrote:


Aug 29, 2012 -- 4:16PM, theinterpreter wrote:


None of the symbolism of the Revelation is taken from the writings of Ezekial and Zechariah, maybe a little bit from Daniel. The Revelation almost entirely stands on its own.



Let's look at it a bit closer. Revelation 1:15 says:

His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.


which comes from Ezekiel 43:2 which says:

and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east. And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.


John was describing Jesus, not God.


Revelation 4:5-8 says:

5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God; 6 and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. 7 The first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. 8 And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say,
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.”


This obviously comes from Ezekiel's vision which is found in Ezekiel 1:4-14

4 As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire. 5 Within it there were figures resembling four living beings. And this was their appearance: they had human form. 6 Each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight and their feet were like a calf’s hoof, and they gleamed like burnished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides were human hands. As for the faces and wings of the four of them, 9 their wings touched one another; their faces did not turn when they moved, each went straight forward. 10 As for the form of their faces, each had the face of a man; all four had the face of a lion on the right and the face of a bull on the left, and all four had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out above; each had two touching another being, and two covering their bodies. 12 And each went straight forward; wherever the spirit was about to go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13 In the midst of the living beings there was something that looked like burning coals of fire, like torches darting back and forth among the living beings. The fire was bright, and lightning was [h]flashing from the fire. 14 And the living beings ran to and fro like bolts of lightning.


In Revelation Chapter 6:12-17 it says:

12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 14 The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the [b]presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”


The earthquake comes from Haggai 2:6

6 For thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘Once more in a little while, I am going to shake the heavens and the earth, the sea also and the dry land.


the sun becoming black and the moon like blood is from Joel 2:31:

31 “The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.


and the sky rolling up like a scroll and the stars falling from the sky like figs falling from a fig tree comes from Isaiah 34:4:

4 And all the host of heaven will wear away,
And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll;
All their hosts will also wither away
As a leaf withers from the vine,
Or as one withers from the fig tree.


So far we're only in Chapter 6. We could go on through the rest of the book, but my point is made. John based his symbolism on Old Testament prophesy.



John's 4 living creatures are entirely different from Ezekial's. John's Revelation is almost entirely new exept for some symbolism here and there.

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2 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2012 - 8:16PM #164
wohali
Posts: 10,227

"John's 4 living creatures are entirely different from Ezekial's. John's Revelation is almost entirely new exept for some symbolism here and there."


Ah, the equivocation shuffle!

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