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Switch to Forum Live View Founders of religion and mental illness
2 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2011 - 10:03AM #1
chevy956
chevy956
Posts: 1,740

So we have Jesus, Messianic wannabe, who claimed that he and YHVH were "one" and that "Before Abraham was, I AM",and incited a riot in the Temple Courtyard in Jerusalem

Muhammed, who encouraged murder of non-believers and his enemies in the name of Allah 

Bahaullah, who claimed to be the Second Coming of Christ, the Mahdi of Islam, etc. who according to the Bahais VOLUNTARILY remained in prison and refused efforts made by others to release him

My take on them is that they all would be diagnosed nowadays as mentally ill. and in 2 cases, criminals and in Muhammed's case,subject to capital offenses in modern society.

My question is: 
 Does deranged behavior on the part of their cherished religious figures count as some type of proof to their followers that those figures have some type of special realtionship with their god?
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2011 - 10:17AM #2
Merope
Merope
Posts: 8,267

This thread was moved from Discuss Atheism.

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 8:09AM #3
river8101
river8101
Posts: 5,188

Seems like it.


  People who think they know all about God or whomever they worship and that those who disagree with their beliefs must be convinced or done away are abit off the beaten track as they say.  Either that, or they have a strong desire to become a dictator.  Same goes for those who agree with that belief and try and either convince others of it, or persecute those who disagree.  Lots of that around.  It always mystifies me why so many people think their religious leaders have all the answers (including many of their religious leaders) and those who disagree with their beliefs must be wrong.

“Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe something your intellect would otherwise cause you to reject.”
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 11:39AM #4
Aka_me
Aka_me
Posts: 9,533

any why wouldn't we include Buddha in the list?


on this theory... it would be the same mental illness which created his happiness.

the law of the land? ya, you know... what E Howard Hunt spent his life defending. oh right, executive orders as signed by the president, gotcha!. try telling me Northwoods doesn't ring of 911 with a straight face.
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2011 - 12:20PM #5
wohali
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Why leave out:


L. Ron Hubbard


Joseph Smith


Wovoka


Gerald Gardiner


Michael Harner


?????????


 
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2011 - 8:56AM #6
G.flower
G.flower
Posts: 2,679

Maybe I'm looking at religion differently but to me who cares if the founder was or wasn't anything? The founder of my religion isn't revered by the tradition. He provided practices that connected one with the gods... or didn't. If it didn't work for you, okay, move on to something else, no problem. If it did, great.


I think that some people who buck the tide to create a new religion have a lot in common with innovators. They see a new way to do things and the determination/singlemindedness to stick with it. The followers are the critical part. Does the idea die out in a generation or so or does it stick or does it go down a path that the original innovator would never condone?

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2011 - 2:31PM #7
allthegoodnamesweretaken
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

Nov 30, 2011 -- 8:56AM, G.flower wrote:


Maybe I'm looking at religion differently but to me who cares if the founder was or wasn't anything? The founder of my religion isn't revered by the tradition. He provided practices that connected one with the gods... or didn't. If it didn't work for you, okay, move on to something else, no problem. If it did, great.


I think that some people who buck the tide to create a new religion have a lot in common with innovators. They see a new way to do things and the determination/singlemindedness to stick with it. The followers are the critical part. Does the idea die out in a generation or so or does it stick or does it go down a path that the original innovator would never condone?





It's probably a pagan thing Gilly.  I have trouble understanding why people think they need to follow a leader myself. 



all

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2011 - 5:49PM #8
Sacrificialgoddess
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

I myself am having trouble with the notion that people need to tag religious leaders with a mental illness charge. Self interest, perhaps, but mental illness?


This whole thread is totally bizarre.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2011 - 6:10PM #9
allthegoodnamesweretaken
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

Good point.

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2011 - 9:44PM #10
Ferretling
Ferretling
Posts: 242

I don't think there's a blanket statement that applies to any founders of any religions. Some of them may well have been whack-jobs, and some of them may have been truly spiritual, perceptive people. And I don't know as everyone on the list intended to start a new religion or intended to be more than a teacher. But some people feel a need to follow. Time passes, things grow. Some are nutjobs, some are wise. I can only decide who I feel is which, but I don't know.
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