"in the christian world it's not what you do, it's who you know. The rest of us have to make do with just doing the right thing."

I saw this statement posted on a blog I frequent, and the sentiment really summed up my own feelings towards one piece of Christian theology I find morally problematic.

Probably the most succinct summary, and rejection, of the idea of being "saved through grace".

I realize that there are other elements within that concept, that "salvation" has to be seen as a necessary thing in order for the concept to make any sense, and that it does not negate moral agency; only that moral agency is not as important as being "saved" is, at least from that perspective. While I understand the notion, I wholeheartedly reject the conclusion it comes to.

Thoughts?

I feel like I am coming to another world sometimes. I was raised believing Christians were good people, and in you could trust them to be safe and good to everyone.

Growing up has been a terrible culture shock. Having come to realise if not the majority of Christians, certainly the loudest and most influential seem to have no morality what so ever.

I am not trying to bash. Obviously there are people who are both kind, wonderful and Christian, but one has nothing to do with the other.

People mould the religion to fit themselves, not themselves to live up to the highest tenets of their religion.

I have listened too and read from the most vile of people, telling us how good they and their god is, why enjoying the idea of people burning in hell for eternity. So very obviously Christianity has good press, (or did in recent years). But I am quickly being taught (by Christians) it is one of the more hateful, blood thirsty belief systems out there.  Like I said not all Christians, but certainly the loudest and most influential.

I must say I am saddened and disappointed that it is not the kind, place my Mother believed and taught me it was.

Oct 27, 2011 -- 12:50PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:

Oct 27, 2011 -- 12:22AM, gorm-sionnach wrote:

"in the christian world it's not what you do, it's who you know. The rest of us have to make do with just doing the right thing."

I saw this statement posted on a blog I frequent, and the sentiment really summed up my own feelings towards one piece of Christian theology I find morally problematic.

Probably the most succinct summary, and rejection, of the idea of being "saved through grace".

I realize that there are other elements within that concept, that "salvation" has to be seen as a necessary thing in order for the concept to make any sense, and that it does not negate moral agency; only that moral agency is not as important as being "saved" is, at least from that perspective. While I understand the notion, I wholeheartedly reject the conclusion it comes to.

Thoughts?

I refuse to view spirituality in the same light as corporate CEO's finding jobs for their slacker kids. 

Oh ALL, always precise and too the point. How do you do that?

Very good point. thanks

Oct 27, 2011 -- 1:06PM, wohali wrote:

"I refuse to view spirituality in the same light as corporate CEO's finding jobs for their slacker kids."

Well, several televangelists don't have a problem with bringing their kids into the family business.

Schuller, Grahm, Roberts, Armstrong come to mind............. 

I wouldn't consider them spiritual. 

Wohali,

I always find myself agreeing with you.   (and you too Maine Capt!)  Although I was not brought up Christian, I grew up among them.  Some were nice enough to your face, (others not) but we found out that some, whom we considered friends of ours, had appalling feelings towards Jews.   My mother had Christian friends next door, and she was on the porch approaching the screen door when she heard voices in the kitchen.  About to knock, she overheard them talking about the Holocaust.  One of the neighbors said "Well, they had to do something with the Jews, didn't they?"   My mom came home in tears.  Much of her family had been murdered in the camps.   Btw, my mom had saved this person's life when she was just a baby.  Her mother didn't drive, so my mom drove them to the hospital.  Now this neighbor had a child of her own.  Her child grew up and married a Jew, and raised her children Jewish.  karma.  The woman who made the disgusing remark seemed fine about this marriage.  Happy, in fact.  After all, her son-in-law was a lawyer, and they did very well.   She invited me to her grandson's Bar Mitzvah, but it was too far away, and I couldn't go.   Funny about people, isn't it?