Post Reply
Page 6 of 8  •  Prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next
Switch to Forum Live View If it is impossible for the plethora of religious beliefs to be true, which is correct?
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 12:03AM #51
Ironhold
Posts: 11,585

May 23, 2012 -- 11:51PM, li47 wrote:

Again, my comment had nothing to do with whether or not the lds church could legally operate in Africa at the time, or if it even had a presence there. That is not the subject of our discussion. Your assertion was that the lds church could not have men of African descent in the priesthood because of colonialism in Africa. My examples to you clearly refute your assertion.



I don't think you're quite getting me.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 12:11AM #52
li47
Posts: 857
Ironhold, I think I am understanding you, but what you have been saying seems unrelated to the point I have made. Whether or not your church had or didn't have, was allowed to have or not allowed to have a presence in Africa prior to 1978, IMO, colonialism in Africa had no bearing on the lds policy re: extending the priesthood to men of African ancestry.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 12:17PM #53
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Brigham Young, Feb 5, 1852:


"Now says the grand father I will not distroy the seed of michal and his wife; and cain I will not kill you, nor suffer any one to kill you, but I will put a mark upon you. What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see. Now I tell you what I know; when the mark was put upon Cain, Abels children was in all probability young; the Lord told Cain that he should not receive the blessings of the preisthood nor his seed, until the last of the posterity of Able had received the preisthood, until the redemtion of the earth. If there never was a prophet, or apostle of Jesus Christ spoke it before, I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain. I know they are, I know that they cannot bear rule in the preisthood, for the curse on them was to remain upon them, until the resedue of the posterity of Michal and his wife receive the blessings, the seed of Cain would have received had they not been cursed; and hold the keys of the preisthood, until the times of the restitution shall come, and the curse be wiped off from the earth, and from michals seed. Then Cain's seed will be had in rememberance, and the time come when that curse should be wiped off."


Journal of Discourses:


"In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them."

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 2:13PM #54
Ironhold
Posts: 11,585

May 24, 2012 -- 12:11AM, li47 wrote:

Ironhold, I think I am understanding you, but what you have been saying seems unrelated to the point I have made. Whether or not your church had or didn't have, was allowed to have or not allowed to have a presence in Africa prior to 1978, IMO, colonialism in Africa had no bearing on the lds policy re: extending the priesthood to men of African ancestry.



Again -


The church actually made moves to ease the ban back in the 1950s.


But past that, it was either "all" or "nothing".

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 2:26PM #55
Ironhold
Posts: 11,585

May 24, 2012 -- 12:17PM, wohali wrote:


Journal of Discourses:


"In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them."




Did you at any point in time read the link I gave you?


You see, although the church opposed slavery, it also opposed the increasingly violent methods that various abolition groups were beginning to use.


Instead, the church favored peaceful means of ending slavery. For example, as part of his 1844 Presidential platform, Joseph Smith urged the citizenry to petition their representatives for passage of laws against slavery. He also urged Congress to set up a system (funded by the sale of public lands and a reduction in the pay of serving members of Congress) by which any slave owner willing to quote a price to free their slaves would be thusly paid.


In contrast, some abolition groups were actually going so far as to incite slave rebellions.


For obvious reasons, this is something that the history books don't much like to talk about. After all, as you so clearly demonstrate, the notion that Mormons were once well ahead of the curve in regards to race relations and the issue of slavery and paid in blood for it, doesn't fit the established narrative.



Brigham Young, Feb 5, 1852:


"Now says the grand father I will not distroy the seed of michal and his wife; and cain I will not kill you, nor suffer any one to kill you, but I will put a mark upon you. What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see. Now I tell you what I know; when the mark was put upon Cain, Abels children was in all probability young; the Lord told Cain that he should not receive the blessings of the preisthood nor his seed, until the last of the posterity of Able had received the preisthood, until the redemtion of the earth. If there never was a prophet, or apostle of Jesus Christ spoke it before, I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain. I know they are, I know that they cannot bear rule in the preisthood, for the curse on them was to remain upon them, until the resedue of the posterity of Michal and his wife receive the blessings, the seed of Cain would have received had they not been cursed; and hold the keys of the preisthood, until the times of the restitution shall come, and the curse be wiped off from the earth, and from michals seed. Then Cain's seed will be had in rememberance, and the time come when that curse should be wiped off."



[citation needed]

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 2:48PM #56
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

Sorry to shit in everyones cereal here, but is this really something we are caring about here?  I can understand having this discussion on a debate board, but this is multifaith by the gods!

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 3:20PM #57
wohali
Posts: 10,227

Well All, the thread was started by a drive-by coward and then sat ignored for weeks.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 3:47PM #58
Ironhold
Posts: 11,585

May 24, 2012 -- 2:48PM, allthegoodnamesweretaken wrote:


Sorry to shit in everyones cereal here, but is this really something we are caring about here?  I can understand having this discussion on a debate board, but this is multifaith by the gods!




Sadly, pretty much every time the LDS faith is mentioned anywhere people come out of the woodwork to try and bash it.


...no matter how many times the facts get in their way.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 4:57PM #59
allthegoodnamesweretaken
Posts: 11,634

May 24, 2012 -- 3:47PM, Ironhold wrote:



Sadly, pretty much every time the LDS faith is mentioned anywhere people come out of the woodwork to try and bash it.


...no matter how many times the facts get in their way.





Perhaps you lack a firm grasp of the genesis of this discussion......


Hint, it didn't start with people "bashing" LDS.  It started with someone promoting it as "ultimate truth". 


Disagreement is not bashing. 

Yesterday, in America, 100 million gun owners did nothing.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  May 24, 2012 - 7:31PM #60
Aka_me
Posts: 12,406

May 23, 2012 -- 9:48PM, Ironhold wrote:

Actually, blacks first had the priesthood in the 1830s.


This led to the church's expulsion from Missouri, with 20+ dead.



The directive was issued in the aftermath of the Battle of Crooked River, a clash between Mormons and a unit of the Missouri State Guard


we've never actually seen an attempt to explain why JS was allowed to ordain black people...


when there was a ban on the priesthood.

if you don't believe the CIA controls the media, then it's only through WILLFUL ignorance of the information openly available to you. who shot himself in the head TWICE before a new book was released. the corruption is bleeping sick!
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 6 of 8  •  Prev 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook